A Word of Caution: Some of these chat sessions refer to strategies that should NO LONGER be employed. Do not use hidden links, hidden frames, hidden layers, hidden div, hidden text, or anything else that is "hidden." It could get your site banned by Google.

Conducted by Gene O'Neil
Academy of Web Specialists
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11:07 gene Hi everyone, welcome to the Dynamic and advanced issues chat
11:08 gene I'm here ready to try and answer your questions and steer you around problem areas with the SEs
11:08 gene although this is about dynamic issues, etc., anything you want to bring up is fine by me
11:09 snowdog I am working with a very large Automotive Group right now and there entire site is mostly dynamically generated.
11:09 gene So what are you going to do about it?
11:09 snowdog The site has been created using templates and they're not likely to steer away since they just paid a lot of money.
11:10 snowdog My obvious thought is doorway pages.
11:10 snowdog Would you agree?
11:11 gene so are you going to try to get the client to fold them into the site or are you creating another web site for the client with these pages
11:11 snowdog Well, that's still the unknown. I have to find out if the web development company will allow me to FTP pages up to their site. If not, I'd have to build around it.
11:12 snowdog My preference is to build the pages and upload to their server.
11:12 gene OK, remember that if you ask for and get access to their web site you could face dangerous liability issues
11:12 gene you might want to reconsider that part of it
11:13 gene let them upload them and fold them into the navigation structure per your instructionsm - much safer
11:13 snowdog What if I would create the pages, send to the development company, and allow them to upload?
11:13 gene but there are other ways to skin a cat
11:13 snowdog Ahhh, you just answered that.
11:13 gene Let's start at the beginning here
11:14 gene then we will go into the more advanced, costly options
11:14 gene First remember to make sure you charge more than you think that you are worth, because what you are doing for these corporate clients makes them a fortune
11:15 snowdog I agree 100%.
11:15 gene Look at what some of the expensive players in this field charge like IProspect or Inceptor, their smallest package starts for many tens of thousands of dollars
11:15 gene Often times the more you charge the more important these corporate types think that you are....
11:16 gene Back to the issue at hand
11:16 gene Remember that the SEs do two things very well
11:16 gene they index visible content and follow links
11:17 gene so this is what you have to put on the dynamic pages that may be full of dynamic image files.... there are some easy and not so easy ways to do this
11:17 gene Often times the CEOs don't want to change the look of their home page
11:17 gene but then they are missing the most important advantage that their web site has
11:18 gene so if you can't get them to place a primary KW headline on the page and at least a paragraph of supporting body copy then there are two different strategies that work well
11:19 gene before I proceed, remember that this primary KW headline must be repeated in the title tag.... and the paragraph will be the default description used by most SEs
11:20 gene all this needs to appear in the top 25% of the page for optimum relevancy
11:20 gene So what do you do if the client doesn't want to have visible text such as I described?
11:20 gene the first option is to use the hidden frame technique
11:22 gene You make a new file for the client.... this new file is renamed as the home page and the previous home page is renamed as /index1 or whatever and isd in the hidden frame
11:24 gene The new hidden frame home page contains perfectly crafted title and meta data, a perfectly crafted headline and supporting body copy of at least 200 words. Perfectly crafted KW text links to all the clients important sub-pages.... all this appears in the noframes tags
11:24 gene everyone got this???
11:24 snowdog Very cool!
11:25 snowdog However, you talked about links to the sub-pages, these are dynamically driven pages.
11:25 gene When someone comes to the clients home page.... they see the same old home page.... unless they view source, then they see the noframes stuff
11:25 gene Hey, how much is this worth to you?
11:26 gene You have to jack up your price to the client because we are making their business
11:27 gene the deal is that you have to duplicate this process for all their important sub-pages; this in effect is providing a spider path for the clients dynamic, invisible web site. You are already making you clients big bucks....
11:27 gene so you make sure to raise your prices
11:27 pata I thought most engines did not deal with frames
11:28 gene this way, the client is happy because he has the same old useless web site.... and the spiders are happy because they get to crawl SE friendly pages with lots of juicy KW text links to important sub-pages
11:28 gene Right. They don't support frames, but they do crawl and support noframes tags and this is the big KEY
11:29 gene I provided Bayer multiple first page rankings for a competitive KW phrase using this technique for a formerly invisible home page
11:29 pata so you can put body text in the no frames tag?
11:29 gene All the KW text links appear in the noframes tags
11:29 gene absolutely
11:30 gene just clean it up and make it very, very simple, following the guidelines that Robin teaches in her classes
11:30 gene Remember the H1 tags, remember to duplicate the title tag in the headline, expanding upon it
11:32 gene the only hard part is getting the clients to fold these new pages into their web site. It shouldn't be difficult with the sub-pages because you will name them for their primary KWs, and when you befriend the webmaster, you should be able to get the home page swapped for the new hidden frame home page because it won't look any different to the CEO
11:32 gene Everyone got this now???
11:33 pata If you use an external javascript, say for roll over navigation, does this essentially move your content closer to the top of the document or do SEs read it as if the javascript were in the main page?
11:33 gene Remember if you mislead the SEs and put content in the noframes tags that isn't visible to humans on the dynamic image laden home page, you are spamming and you will go to hell
11:34 snowdog For the most I do get it. However, what's option 2 in the case that the web development company isn't willing to work with you?
11:34 snowdog That last statement you made almost seems like everything you just taught would be considered spam. What am I missing?
11:35 gene OK. Pata's question first
11:35 gene referencing the JS to a remote file will allow that script to be moved and will allow any indexible content to appear higher in the source
11:36 pata so it is a good practice? considering js can be excessive.
11:36 gene No, as long as the page that in the hidden frame is about what the content of the noframes tag is about you are OK
11:36 gene you just don't want to mislead the SEs at all
11:36 gene depends on the web site
11:36 snowdog I get it.
11:37 snowdog And option 2?
11:37 gene It's always a handy tool if there is plenty of JS on the page pushing down the indexible content too far for optimum relevancy
11:37 gene Here's the 2nd option
11:38 pata gene can you give us a url were you have used an invisible frame so we can view the source?
11:38 gene You create a new home page for the client, making it a simple html page perfectly crafted for the SEs. You then place a JS redirect on this new fileng the clients former home page. The SEs don't read the JS redirect
11:39 snowdog I thought I heard where redirects were a bad thing. Robin and John I thought mentioned that.
11:39 gene My, my, you guy want everything on a silver platter.
11:39 pata Is redirecting and cloaking the same thing? and if so I thought that was a no, no.
11:40 gene You can view the source for hidden frames on Planet Ocean
11:40 gene If you don't subscribe to that resource you should
11:41 gene In the old days the meta refresh was called the meta refresh of death.
11:41 gene Infoseek would kill you
11:41 gene Av didn't like it either
11:41 gene but now most SEs will index the page that you are redirecting to
11:42 gene redirecting and cloaking are two different things....
11:42 gene but redirecting is used in cloaking
11:42 gene most big web sites have redirects to newer pages of content.....
11:42 gene the SEs all use redirects
11:43 gene it's the standard in the industry
11:43 gene they got a bad name from spammers in the adult industry
11:43 gene who purposely mislead the SEs....
11:43 pata is there anything about redirects we should avoid?
11:44 pata other than non matching content
11:44 gene The reason that JS redirects work well in the 2nd strategy is that the SEs don't read them, but human browsers do
11:45 gene I would use JS redirects or server side redirects, not meta-refresh because the SEs read meta fresh and will index the page you redirect to, not the page with the meta refresh on it
11:45 gene OK, are you ready for the big money strategy now???
11:46 gene After you do what you can with the client's web site, using either of the options discussed so far
11:47 gene You sell the client a very expensive aggressive strategy that is composed of making a new web-site or sub-domain of the clients web site
11:48 gene that you host. This new web site is focused around the client's primary KW phrases. The entire web site is perfectly optimized for the SEs
11:48 gene and you place JS redirects upon all the pages pointing to the various specific pages on the clients primary web site
11:49 gene thus providing a one click solution to the human surfer looking for the client's KWs.... while your hardworking pages are never seen by humans
11:49 gene this is called poor mans cloaking, but is OK as long as you don't spam
11:50 snowdog It's not possible to host the subdomains yourself?
11:50 snowdog That's basically just another directory off the root domain.
11:51 gene You want to host the sub-domains so that you and only you can control them. If the client stops paying you shut them off
11:52 gene and you protect your hard won skills
11:52 snowdog Yes, but again, is that even possible when as I said it's basically just a directory off the root domain?
11:53 snowdog cars.ford.com is basically the same as ford.com/cars
11:53 gene I think it's possible. I've been doing it for 4 years now very, very successfully
11:54 gene step back from what we are talking about here and look at the big picture. You will see the benefits quite clearly
11:55 gene We've got time for a few questions on any of this.
11:58 burgwald I have a web site hosted by a company I sort of work for www.etakecards.com will option 3 work on this
11:58 burgwald etakecreditcards.com
11:59 gene all the options discussed here will work on any web site. It's just a matter of how much you care to put into it, and how much they will pay for the expensive strategies.
11:59 burgwald what do you call expensive
12:00 gene obviously the last strategy takes a lot more time, but it provides tremendous benefits in highly qualified traffic and thematic kW text links back the clients primary web site
12:01 gene it's worth big bucks
12:02 pata what is the link to your company web site?
12:03 gene www.advanced-search-engine-marketing.com
12:03 gene If any of you have additional questions you can email me and I'll try to help asemc

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