A Word of Caution: Some of these chat sessions refer to strategies that should NO LONGER be employed. Do not use hidden links, hidden frames, hidden layers, hidden div, hidden text, or anything else that is "hidden." It could get your site banned by Google.

Conducted by Gene O'Neil
Academy of Web Specialists
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12:05:55 2003 gene OK, so this chat is about any and all advanced SEM issues and anywhere else any of you want to take it.....
12:08:13 2003 gene So I can start rambling on if no ones got any questions to start off
12:08:56 2003 gene Please remember that the name of the game is to get your client's pages indexed and ranked well in the SEs so that they can make money
12:09:28 2003 gene As you probably already know, most large corporate web sites are not SE friendly
12:09:51 2003 gene many small corporate web sites are not SE friendly....
12:10:14 2003 gene I'd like you all to know that there is always something you can do to change this....
12:10:57 2003 gene Obviously, the easiest is to convince the web master that an optimized title tag and a similar headline can go a long way to providing visibility
12:11:12 2003 gene but sometimes this can be like pulling teeth
12:12:11 2003 kodiak does it decrease the effectiveness of a link if I use 2-3 keywords in that link to another internal page?
12:12:11 2003 gene either from lack of desire to change the way the site looks, or just not enough motivation to make the changes
12:12:53 2003 gene in these instances, there are a few techniques that can be used to still get optimized indexible content before the SEs....
12:13:49 2003 gene the KWs in the link need to be thematic and be related to the page you are linking to
12:14:30 2003 burgwald what is thematic
12:14:50 2003 gene Why don't you all just ell me where you want this chat to go.... I don't want to take the time in explaining something if you aren't interested
12:15:02 2003 pata I know that there a few people in this chat that are tired of me wanting to talk about this topic, BUT I want to discuss cloaking.. What are your thoughts on the strategy?
12:15:10 2003 burgwald thematic please go on
12:15:14 2003 gene thematic is synonymous.... (spelling?)
12:16:22 2003 gene Cloaking is a tool.... it depends on how you use the tool
12:16:42 2003 pata do SEs have hard and fast rules for it?
12:16:46 2003 gene if you are ethical and not trying to mislead anyone, then IMO it's a good tool
12:17:09 2003 gene Here's the story on cloaking....
12:17:38 2003 gene Google has said that they will send you to hell if they catch you cloaking....
12:17:44 2003 pata If the content on the cloaked page matches the content on the human page should this be enough to keep me safe?
12:17:45 2003 gene so be aware of that
12:18:15 2003 gene but remember that there are over 5 billion pages on the web with 5 million more added every day
12:18:37 2003 gene SE robots have a major task crawling all those pages trying to make sense of it all
12:18:56 2003 gene so now they use different algorithms to determine what those pages are about
12:19:15 2003 gene 50% is on page criteria, 50% is off page criteria
12:19:27 2003 gene cloaking can take care of the on page criteria
12:19:40 2003 gene but you've got to know your stuff
12:19:56 2003 gene and you've got to take care of the off page criteria for your cloaked pages
12:20:30 2003 pata Is there a difference between cloaking and using robot txt files to send SEs to specific pages (in the eyes of SEs and what they conceder spam)?
12:20:43 2003 gene privately all the other SEs say if you don't try to mislead the SEs and you are only trying to provide the SEs with some indexible content for a page that is otherwise SE unfriendly
12:20:56 2003 gene then cloaking may not ring the alarm bells
12:21:20 2003 gene actually, it's the same thing.....
12:21:38 2003 gene Google would send you to hell for that too.... if they caught you
12:22:15 2003 pata I did not know that felt so strongly about txt files
12:22:16 2003 gene but the only way that they can catch you is if someone turned you in..... the odds of them finding it on there own are zillions to one
12:22:41 2003 gene I've used it successfully for many years now....
12:23:30 2003 gene but only for clients who have SE unfriendly pages..... all of my cloaked pages are identical in theme to the pages that they resolve to
12:24:00 2003 gene does this answer your questions?
12:24:11 2003 pata yes thanks
12:24:17 2003 burgwald what techniques are you suggesting before cloaking earlier also what is12:24:44 2003 pata in my opinion
12:25:36 2003 gene If you want more info on cloaking go to http://www.advanced-search-engine-marketing.com/ip-delivery.html
12:26:00 2003 gene IMO = in my opinion
12:27:26 2003 gene burgwald, are you referring to what I started this chat with?
12:27:34 2003 burgwald yes
12:28:30 2003 gene There are two different techniques that will allow the SEs to "see" indexible content on a page that doesn't have any.....
12:29:52 2003 gene the first one is to create a new file, this will be name as the new index page for the client, with the former index page beingd in a hidden frame
12:30:41 2003 gene you build a perfectly optimized page within the noframes tags. The SEs will index the content of the noframes tags while the former index page in the hidden frame
12:30:58 2003 gene it's very easy to do and very effective with the SEs
12:31:05 2003 gene any questions with this?
12:32:59 2003 mia Can you give us an example site page? Not clear on what you mean.
12:33:03 2003 gene the other technique is to create a new file, also calling it the index page and making it perfect for the SEs. You place a JS redirect on this new fileng the former index page.... this also works quite well
12:33:47 2003 pata I though redirects were a BIG red flag?
12:33:51 2003 gene Mia, if you get Planet Ocean, you can find the code for this in their archive articles
12:34:05 2003 mia thanks.
12:34:23 2003 gene they used to be..... not anymore as long as you are redirecting to identical content
12:34:35 2003 gene Google will index the page that you redirect to
12:34:43 2003 pata how is that different from cloaking?
12:35:18 2003 gene actually, technically it's doing something quite similar
12:36:20 2003 gene with IP Delivery, you are crafting specific pages for specific SEs.... the humans never even load those pages, because there is a script running on the server that identifies whether a human or a spider is making the request and serves the appropriate page
12:36:31 2003 burke Gene, can we talk on something I came here for, Dynamically Generated Web Sites
12:36:43 2003 gene SURE
12:37:01 2003 gene that's what those two techniques were designed to work with
12:37:37 2003 gene they can easily be folded into a CMS as simple html pages
12:38:16 2003 burke Ok, ..... Gene, could you shed some light on Dynamically Generated Web Sites for me, how they are used and where they are used, etc.....
12:38:50 2003 pata CMS ?
12:38:57 2003 gene All you have to do is look at most large company web sites.... most are dynamically generated
12:39:03 2003 gene content management systems
12:39:18 2003 gene all the SEs are dynamic web sites
12:39:40 2003 gene CNN, MSNBC, Weather.com, etc... all are dynamic web sites
12:40:18 2003 burke real time --- so to speak ?
12:40:38 2003 gene most of these web sites have extensions like CFM, JSP, ASP, and contain characters like @#$%&= in the paths
12:41:00 2003 gene of the sub-pages
12:41:51 2003 burke how are they built any different ?
12:42:10 2003 gene each system is very different from the next
12:42:47 2003 gene they cost big bucks to implement.... the pages are built on the fly...
12:43:37 2003 gene in many instances, every time they are generated there is different information on them
12:44:13 2003 gene html pages are static pages
12:44:59 2003 gene Does anyone have any other questions?
12:45:32 2003 burke what does CFM and JSP stand for ?
12:45:51 2003 gene cold fusion and java server pages
12:46:06 2003 gene two different CMSs
12:46:24 2003 burke I see. thanks!12:46:30 2003 gene www.sportspublishingllc.com is a CFM site
12:47:08 2003 gene Is that it everyone ???
12:47:28 2003 pata I have one
12:47:59 2003 pata what about google page rank. I cant make sense of it.. (more)
12:48:15 2003 gene neither can I.....
12:48:24 2003 gene and I don't loose any sleep over it
12:48:34 2003 pata I see sites with higher positions with a lower rank and...
12:48:51 2003 gene IMO the best thing that's happened recently is Yahoo choosing Inktomi.... putting Google back in it's place.
12:48:57 2003 pata fewer inbound links than others listed further down the page
12:49:02 2003 pata what is the deal
12:49:26 2003 gene Google's hires people who try to make the rest of us crazy....
12:49:30 2003 pata lower rate
12:50:06 2003 gene Remember, content is Kind and eventually you will have many quality thematic links coming into your pages.... forget about page rank
12:50:55 2003 gene that was supposed to be KING
12:51:01 2003 mia We've had some success w/ DynGen sites by creating a folder/directory with html pgs on the site that link only to/from the home pg, & submit those html pgs to search engines.
12:51:24 2003 mia Besides PPC we've had no other good success.
12:51:44 2003 mia Have you done anything other than cloaking to push DynGensites?
12:52:20 2003 gene yes, we call that a spider path..... remember to make these html pages for all the important KWs.... they need to be all cross linked with KW text links. they need to have links to these pages from the index page and any important sub pages
12:52:38 2003 gene the two techniques I've discussed above
12:52:56 2003 mia Thanks.
12:53:47 2003 pata I'm still not sure I get the hidden frame thing
12:54:43 2003 gene OK.... make a new page, call this new page the home page..... the former home page is renamed andd in the hidden frame
12:55:31 2003 gene you craft perfectly optimized copy for the noframes tag.... which is indexed by all the SEs
12:55:35 2003 pata what is a hidden frame.. and which one does the visitor see?
12:56:08 2003 pata and.. does the whole site need to be set up this way?
12:56:16 2003 gene go to www.viadur.com..... they've got multiple first page rankings for this page. look at the source

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