Conducted by Robert Roberts
Academy of Web Specialists
Take search engine marketing training!



10:02:45 rroberts This is anchat so that you can ask questions - believe it or not, I have not prepared a speech.
10:02:58 rroberts Let's justthe floor
10:03:44 pata ?
10:03:50 rroberts pata
10:04:30 pata What browser versions do visitors need to have in order to utilize the power of CSS as it relates to SEO
10:05:02 rroberts anything after version 4, pretty much
10:05:15 rroberts even NN4 will respond to CSS on a limited basis
10:05:17 pata Is 4.0 too early
10:05:37 rroberts not necessarily, but your page may look different
10:06:07 pata according to my log files 4.0 browsers are still the most popular (on five different sites)
10:06:40 rroberts A lot of people still use IE 5 as well, which treats some CSS differently
10:07:22 pata Advanced CSS (anything but text formatting) seems risky to me
10:07:48 rroberts Not risky at all
10:08:03 pata don't things render funky
10:08:19 rroberts You can make your entire presentation with CSS
10:08:42 rroberts the only "funky" is NN4, but you encourage people to upgrade
10:09:03 pata maybe you could explain how YOU use CSS with seo, or maybe I should let someone else ask a question
10:09:10 rroberts If you stay away from more advanced CSS, you limit yourself
10:09:42 rroberts CSS isn't necessarily a seo-specific issue, but it is a design issue because
10:10:18 rroberts it helps you control your pages easily and gives you flexibility
10:11:00 rroberts No matter how careful you are with seo, if pages are not current or accessible or meet web standards, you are losing
10:11:07 rroberts a large part of your audience
10:11:20 rroberts that doesn't make any seo sense, at least to me
10:13:48 rroberts I posted a lot of resource material about CSS on the seotoolbox/htmlchat area
10:14:11 rroberts there is a page of examples from the web - real sites using CSS --
10:14:30 rroberts and they're very worth taking a look at so that you can see just how flexible things can be
10:15:07 rroberts the seotoolbox site itself is all controlled-controlled presentation
10:15:29 rroberts Does anyone use CSS editors like StyleMaster, etc?
10:16:11 web_chameleon I have FP 2002, but seem to have bizarre errors occur when trying to apply
10:16:16 pata no never heard of it
10:16:36 rroberts I'm not advocating CSS editors - in fact, a text editor is just fine. as for FP...
10:17:10 rroberts FP creates proprietary code, and messes with everything - I gave up on it way, way back, so can't help you there.
10:17:44 web_chameleon what would you recommend instead of FP?
10:17:49 pata what do you think of Dreamweaver for CSS creation?
10:17:59 web_chameleon instead of using the built in CSS with FP?
10:18:22 rroberts I can't recommend one over another - I don't use WYSIWYG.
10:18:31 dbarry FrontPage does not have to modify your code
10:18:46 dbarry You can easily set it to leave it alone.
10:19:07 rroberts OK - I don't use FP, so am not sure what you can do with it
10:19:31 rroberts Dreamweaver MX is pretty good with CSS - I've experienced it some.
10:19:43 web_chameleon I will email you later Dave to see where that adjustment can be made
10:19:57 rroberts GoLive is so-so with CSS
10:20:09 rroberts it will implement it, but it's hard to edit it within GoLive
10:20:39 rroberts Does FP allow you to hand-edit pages after you've set them up?
10:20:39 web_chameleon so you feel it is best to create CSS in a text editor, then apply?
10:20:55 dbarry Yes it does
10:21:22 dbarry In FP 2002, CSS is so easy, you can do it asleep
10:21:32 rroberts Yes - that's how I work, because it's so easy - there's nothing complicated about CSS
10:22:12 rroberts you must, of course, adjust html code for your CSS, but you can do that in your editor or a plain text editor
10:23:26 rroberts Everybody works differently - some just don't like working directly with code
10:23:27 pata Do you use the positioning features as well as text formatting?
10:23:58 rroberts yes - I use positioning features - the entire "look" of the site, in fact
10:24:29 dbarry That gives you major flexibility over the location of text in your pages, doesn't it.
10:25:11 rroberts well, yes. I try to achieve the most flexible layout possible so that it will not only render at
10:25:50 rroberts different window sizes, but can also be easily read by non-standard internet access things like handhelds
10:27:00 dbarry I meant the location of your text in the code for search engine spiders
10:27:11 rroberts yes - exactly
10:27:39 rroberts as you know, the quicker the spider can get to your "real" content, the better
10:27:43 web_chameleon so that's the way you get text to adjust properly at different screen sizes
10:28:08 rroberts is that a question?
10:29:17 web_chameleon well ... yes
10:29:28 rroberts using an external stylesheet also helps get spiders to you content quicker
10:29:32 web_chameleon or perhaps an "ah-ha" if I understood it correctly
10:30:15 rroberts text fills a space and wraps - if the space is flexible and not fixed, it will adjust to screen sizes
10:30:57 web_chameleon okay, I think I am thinking of something else.
10:32:31 rroberts I've rounded up some resources for you all ...
10:33:22 rroberts there is a very good CSS faq forum here ...
http://www.hwg.org/resources/faqs/cssFAQ.html
10:33:50 rroberts sorry, but I can't make my chat-thing put in a "link" thingy
10:34:09 aesopian I'll just hand type it. Mine doesn't do link right either.
10:34:35 rroberts another big reference source:
http://www.websitetips.com/css/index.shtml
10:35:15 rroberts a brand new site that looks promising is
10:35:17 rroberts The Nemesis Project for CSS and XHTML
10:35:30 rroberts http://nemesis1.f2o.org/
10:36:19 rroberts one of the best ways to start getting the hang of CSS is
10:36:29 rroberts to look at the code of sites that you like
10:37:02 rroberts you'll often see what they're CSS is linking to, for example "style.css"
10:37:23 rroberts then you go to site.com/style.css and study it, and compare it to what you see on the page
10:37:36 rroberts you can always learn a little bit of something
10:37:41 aesopian http://www.w3schools.com is also a good reference. They entire site is done with XHTML and CSS.
10:37:53 rroberts absolutely!
10:38:22 rroberts It's also really valuable to comment you CSS because
10:38:41 rroberts when you come back to it in 6 months, you don't have to wonder what that div was supposed to do
10:39:13 rroberts Giving your selector properties intelligible names also helps in the long run
10:40:25 rroberts and not painting yourself into a corner with names - for instance
10:40:47 rroberts you've got a header property that you want red
10:41:07 rroberts so you gleefully assign the class .red
10:41:27 rroberts 6 months from now you want that header to be blue
10:41:42 rroberts so you must change the assigned color for the class red
10:41:55 rroberts which gets all kinds of confusing
10:42:42 rroberts so it's better to name the class something that won't get you stuck
10:44:40 rroberts Let me ask you something ...
10:44:52 rroberts What things about CSS bother you the most?
10:45:09 rroberts what are the top gripes?
10:46:52 rroberts ok - no gripes - that's good
10:47:05 rroberts always remember: CSS is your friend
10:47:17 simone ?
10:47:22 rroberts go
10:47:28 simone Regarding positioning features ...
10:47:38 simone I have been asked to do something (optimization) for a flash only site
10:47:48 simone Everything is in Flash: images, text, menu (links)
10:47:57 simone Do you think placing the same text (those embedded in flash) + links
10:48:06 simone with layers under the flash movie (using z-index),
10:48:17 simone can be dangerous (Planet Ocean suggested this technique last year)???
10:48:47 rroberts You would have to experiment, I think because
10:49:21 rroberts 1. not everyone has the current Flash plugin or wants it, and either way, the text is covered up
10:49:29 rroberts so how will they see links?
10:49:46 rroberts 2. links under the flash is fine for the spiders, I guess
10:50:03 rroberts but where is any of the content that the spiders want?
10:50:27 aesopian Wouldn't it be written in the same layer as the links?
10:50:58 rroberts 3. isn't the flash on top of the layer?
10:51:07 rroberts like a z-index thing?
10:51:46 rroberts many sites with flash have a text link to a non-flash equivalent
10:52:45 rroberts if the content is hidden, how does that help non-flash visitors?
10:54:05 rroberts I don't think there's any one single answer
10:54:55 rroberts does someone else have an insight on this?
10:55:30 aesopian Dave Barry, the author of that Planet Ocean article on Z-order and Flash, was here just a second ago, but he left to do something else.
10:55:39 aesopian We could have asked him... but too late.
10:55:50 rroberts drat - I didn't realize that
10:56:05 rroberts if he drops back by, corner him!
10:56:24 simone Ok, thanks.
10:56:49 aesopian Well, he's in the corner of my office right now, or more like I'm in the corner of his... He's busy with something else right now.
10:57:19 rroberts well gang, it's almost time for the Froogle chat in conference room #2. I enjoyed your company, and
10:57:49 rroberts hope you found this helpful. If you have comments or questions, email info and I'll do what I can to help you out.

Back to Chat Index
Enroll in a Search Engine Marketing Training Program

This document maintained by RobinN of the Academy of Web Specialists, which offers online training in search engine marketing to students around the world.
©1999-2003 Academy of Web Specialists, All rights reserved.
418 Main St. #9, Half Moon Bay, CA 94019
(650) 712-8198