Conducted by Mark Garwell

Academy of Web Specialists

Take search engine marketing training!

Tue Jun 18 11:06:11 2002 mark g {public msg} When clients come to us, they all (without exception) are looking for a way to get more traffic to their sites.

Tue Jun 18 11:06:45 2002 mark g {public msg} Historically, we have just provided search engine optimization, submission and marketing for them.

Tue Jun 18 11:07:26 2002 mark g {public msg} As PPC got more popular we decided to start offering PPC management schemes and basically re-sell traffic.

Tue Jun 18 11:08:05 2002 mark g {public msg} There are so many pay for performance schemes now that you can basically get your client into every major search engine within a week via PPC.

Tue Jun 18 11:08:25 2002 mark g {public msg} So why not offer these schemes directly to the customer and make a little money on the way.

Tue Jun 18 11:09:05 2002 mark g {public msg} It is a quick solution to sites that are not search engine friendly and for clients who want traffic NOW

Tue Jun 18 11:09:24 2002 mark g {public msg} PPC engines like Overture are willing to offer SEOs preferential treatment and give you access to an account manager.

Tue Jun 18 11:09:54 2002 mark g {public msg} We get accounts created quickly, keywords uploaded quickly, a cut on every click and all the accounts listed from just one log in.

Tue Jun 18 11:10:04 2002 mark g {public msg} cool huh?

Tue Jun 18 11:10:18 2002 mark g {public msg} you guys still alive?

Tue Jun 18 11:10:21 2002 rain {public msg} yes

Tue Jun 18 11:10:22 2002 melissa {public msg} yes

Tue Jun 18 11:10:31 2002 mark g {public msg} It makes life so much easier.

Tue Jun 18 11:10:32 2002 melissa {public msg} listening attentively!

Tue Jun 18 11:10:35 2002 rain {public msg} it does sound good

Tue Jun 18 11:10:40 2002 mark g {public msg} Here is the service we are now offering:

Tue Jun 18 11:10:50 2002 mark g {public msg} Keyword consultation

Tue Jun 18 11:11:01 2002 mark g {public msg} We do research using keyword and bid tools to check the keywords are both searched for and relevant

Tue Jun 18 11:11:17 2002 mark g {public msg} We then ask the client for a maximum cost per click that they want to spend

Tue Jun 18 11:11:36 2002 mark g {public msg} and if they have a maximum amount they would like to spend per week or per month.

Tue Jun 18 11:11:51 2002 mark g {public msg} then wethe account and check it twice a day to make sure there are no bid gaps.

Tue Jun 18 11:11:59 2002 mark g {public msg} and yes we use software to do it

Tue Jun 18 11:12:12 2002 mark g {public msg} The client is sent a report telling them how many clicks they have received how much it has cost them and the average cost per click.

Tue Jun 18 11:12:25 2002 mark g {public msg} We are paid a set up fee, a monthly management fee and we take a cut on the clicks.

Tue Jun 18 11:12:50 2002 mark g {public msg} Everyone wins; we make money, the client gets good relevant traffic for a small management fee and the PPC provider gets more customers as we are reselling their service

Tue Jun 18 11:13:24 2002 mark g {public msg} I was really unsure of the big movement towards PPC on the Internet but I suppose if you can't beat them!

Tue Jun 18 11:13:31 2002 frisco {public msg} ?

Tue Jun 18 11:13:37 2002 mark g {public msg} go for it

Tue Jun 18 11:13:54 2002 rain {public msg} ?

Tue Jun 18 11:13:59 2002 frisco {public msg} do you do the optimizing for their site or one you set up?

Tue Jun 18 11:14:32 2002 mark g {public msg} Ah, we don't set up any extra sites for these schemes, just send them the traffic

Tue Jun 18 11:15:04 2002 rain {public msg} what is the average cost per client?

Tue Jun 18 11:15:15 2002 mark g {public msg} per click or for management?

Tue Jun 18 11:15:24 2002 rain {public msg} all included per month

Tue Jun 18 11:16:11 2002 mark g {public msg} The client pays for the traffic directly (we use their credit card) we charge them a set up fee and a monthly management fee depending on how many keywords they are bidding for

Tue Jun 18 11:16:28 2002 mark g {public msg} ok?

Tue Jun 18 11:16:39 2002 rain {public msg} ok what is the average per click pay

Tue Jun 18 11:17:15 2002 mark g {public msg} it varies greatly, the cheapest is $0.05 the most around $15.00

Tue Jun 18 11:17:53 2002 frisco {public msg} how much do you charge for setup, management, and how much cut for PPC

Tue Jun 18 11:19:03 2002 mark g {public msg} Set up is typically around $45.00 per 200 keywords and then the same per month. Our cut is different on each PPC provider, Overture give us 5%, Looksmart 15%, Espotting 5%

Tue Jun 18 11:19:57 2002 melissa {public msg} How do you set up a professional SEO account with the PPC engines and what bid management software do you use?

Tue Jun 18 11:21:09 2002 mark g {public msg} To set up a partner deal contact the PPC provider directly, tell them you are an SEO, a great way to get these things moving is to talk to them at conferences..... We currently use Bidrank to check the bids but there are many different titles out there

Tue Jun 18 11:21:27 2002 mark g {public msg} Netman

Tue Jun 18 11:21:29 2002 melissa {public msg} Okay, thanks

Tue Jun 18 11:21:38 2002 mark g {public msg} no worries

Tue Jun 18 11:21:48 2002 netman {public msg} how the percentage works from Overture, Looksmart, Espotting. Is there a minimum $ limit to get the SEO account

Tue Jun 18 11:22:36 2002 mark g {public msg} They all have different criteria, some want you to spend so much per month, others want to see your client list, you need to speak to them directly and talk about your circumstances

Tue Jun 18 11:22:53 2002 netman {public msg} ok

Tue Jun 18 11:23:13 2002 mark g {public msg} It really is a great deal, you earn money on every click

Tue Jun 18 11:23:30 2002 netman {public msg} is Google part of the program too?

Tue Jun 18 11:23:48 2002 netman {public msg} I mean do they offer any percentage

Tue Jun 18 11:24:18 2002 mark g {public msg} you can do Premium Sponsorship with Google, minimum spend is $3k per quarter though

Tue Jun 18 11:24:27 2002 mark g {public msg} and yes, you can get a cut

Tue Jun 18 11:24:33 2002 mark g {public msg} if you resell enough

Tue Jun 18 11:24:43 2002 netman {public msg} cool

Tue Jun 18 11:25:06 2002 rain {public msg} I earn money per click, but does it convert well for the customer

Tue Jun 18 11:26:02 2002 mark g {public msg} yes of course, this is where the skill comes in, you need to make sure the client gets good quality traffic so they can keep their conversion rate up

Tue Jun 18 11:26:06 2002 rain {public msg} in other words, is it worth the customer money to buy it - what is the ratio per so many clicks

Tue Jun 18 11:26:12 2002 mark g {public msg} (hi sally)

Tue Jun 18 11:26:36 2002 mark g {public msg} it is hard to get a ratio for clients in different market areas

Tue Jun 18 11:26:48 2002 mark g {public msg} I was talking to a client today

Tue Jun 18 11:28:07 2002 mark g {enters}

Tue Jun 18 11:28:27 2002 mark g {public msg} he spends £7500 per month on clicks

Tue Jun 18 11:28:44 2002 mark g {public msg} but only needs 4 sales to make his money back

Tue Jun 18 11:29:05 2002 mark g {public msg} another client needs to convert 6% of all clicks to break even

Tue Jun 18 11:29:20 2002 mark g {public msg} it is so different for every client

Tue Jun 18 11:29:59 2002 netman {public msg} do you do the conversion tracking for the client

Tue Jun 18 11:30:24 2002 mark g {public msg} for some we do, most clients will implement strategies after consultation though

Tue Jun 18 11:30:36 2002 mark g {public msg} cookies is a good way of doing it

Tue Jun 18 11:30:57 2002 mark g {public msg} or sending traffic to pages that are not accessible via the normal site's navigation

Tue Jun 18 11:31:16 2002 netman {public msg} how can you tell that the conversion is from CPC program

Tue Jun 18 11:31:33 2002 frisco {public msg} ?

Tue Jun 18 11:31:55 2002 mark g {public msg} using unique URL's like http://www.domain.com/index.htm?source=overture

Tue Jun 18 11:32:14 2002 netman {public msg} throughout the site?

Tue Jun 18 11:32:46 2002 mark g {public msg} no using this as the URL in the PPC scheme so they send all our referrals to this URL

Tue Jun 18 11:32:53 2002 mark g {public msg} ok

Tue Jun 18 11:33:29 2002 netman {public msg} so we are only doing referrals from CPC engines not conversion

Tue Jun 18 11:33:43 2002 melissa {public msg} ?

Tue Jun 18 11:33:48 2002 mark g {public msg} sorry I don't get it

Tue Jun 18 11:34:49 2002 netman {public msg} let's say a visitor comes from overture. He navigates through the site and decides to buy merchandise. To exactly know that the visitor is from CPC engine how would you track it

Tue Jun 18 11:35:06 2002 mark g {public msg} either using cookies or...

Tue Jun 18 11:35:56 2002 mark g {public msg} by having a section of the site just for CPC traffic that is not accessible by normal traffic

Tue Jun 18 11:36:33 2002 mark g {public msg} it would be like a mirror of the normal site

Tue Jun 18 11:36:37 2002 mark g {public msg} ok?

Tue Jun 18 11:36:45 2002 netman {public msg} so what should be the right amount to charge for the setup it takes a lot of time to do all this.

Tue Jun 18 11:37:33 2002 mark g {public msg} Good point! This would be different, it may be the client could do this so only a consultation charge, otherwise it would depend on the site

Tue Jun 18 11:37:50 2002 frisco {public msg} when you check twice daily for bid gaps, do you report to client 2x daily?

Tue Jun 18 11:37:57 2002 netman {public msg} thanks

Tue Jun 18 11:38:09 2002 mark g {public msg} We tend to send reports weekly

Tue Jun 18 11:38:22 2002 frisco {public msg} ok

Tue Jun 18 11:38:32 2002 mark g {public msg} but if the client wants the reports more then if they pay more they can!!

Tue Jun 18 11:38:40 2002 mark g {public msg} Melissa

Tue Jun 18 11:38:42 2002 melissa {public msg} Do you write all the titles and descriptions for the companies' bids?

Tue Jun 18 11:39:11 2002 mark g {public msg} yes, we ask for their input but that's what they pay for, an expert to do it for them.

Tue Jun 18 11:39:18 2002 melissa {public msg} ok

Tue Jun 18 11:39:31 2002 sallyk {public msg} do you use robot text files to keep other traffic (including) spiders off the mirror pages

Tue Jun 18 11:40:13 2002 mark g {public msg} there is no way for them to find them, but to be honest they don't tend to follow Robot txt anyway

Tue Jun 18 11:40:41 2002 sallyk {public msg} are you saying robot txt doesn't work

Tue Jun 18 11:41:27 2002 mark g {public msg} kind of, they don't NOT work, but they don't WORK either, I've seen lots of examples of spiders catching pages they weren't supposed to

Tue Jun 18 11:42:13 2002 mark g {public msg} frisco

Tue Jun 18 11:42:14 2002 frisco {public msg} if there's no way for spiders to find mirror pages, where are you putting them? I don't understand.

Tue Jun 18 11:42:18 2002 sallyk {public msg} oh - I'll have to think about that. I don't use them much but have always had at the back of my mind I could

Tue Jun 18 11:43:17 2002 sallyk {public msg} My mistake - if there are no links there isn't a problem.

Tue Jun 18 11:43:32 2002 mark g {public msg} The pages we talked about are purely there for PPC traffic so we can track what happens to these customers when they get to our site, the pages need to be separate from the normal site

Tue Jun 18 11:43:43 2002 netman {public msg} how about creating a directory?

Tue Jun 18 11:43:51 2002 mark g {public msg} a directory?

Tue Jun 18 11:44:37 2002 netman {public msg} like overture directory and put all the pages in it and do a global link replacement on all pages

Tue Jun 18 11:45:06 2002 netman {public msg} and use robot.txt file to exclude the directory from indexing

Tue Jun 18 11:46:11 2002 mark g {public msg} geez, it's been a long day, sorry Netman I really don't understand what you mean

Tue Jun 18 11:46:50 2002 mark g {public msg} can you give it another shot please

Tue Jun 18 11:47:35 2002 netman {action} ) Let's say you have a domain http://www.domain.com and you create an overture directory with in the domain http://www.domain.com/overture/ and have all the mirror pages within the directory

Tue Jun 18 11:47:52 2002 mark g {public msg} I'm with you now

Tue Jun 18 11:48:29 2002 mark g {public msg} sounds good, it would be obvious what you were doing if you did this and that would be useful if ever one of our friends at a search engine came looking at your site

Tue Jun 18 11:48:45 2002 mark g {public msg} know what I mean?

Tue Jun 18 11:49:02 2002 sallyk {public msg} no

Tue Jun 18 11:49:33 2002 netman {public msg} Can't you use robot.txt file to exclude the directory for other spiders to index it?

Tue Jun 18 11:49:43 2002 sallyk {public msg} are you saying it would show the search engine was not abiding by the txt file

Tue Jun 18 11:49:52 2002 netman {public msg} All spiders?

Tue Jun 18 11:50:16 2002 mark g {public msg} exactly Sally, yes Netman in theory you can

Tue Jun 18 11:50:20 2002 mark g {public msg} Frisco

Tue Jun 18 11:50:33 2002 frisco {public msg} if a directory is obvious to searchers, aren't mirror pages obvious, then?

Tue Jun 18 11:50:43 2002 netman {public msg} right

Tue Jun 18 11:51:15 2002 melissa {public msg} ?

Tue Jun 18 11:51:24 2002 mark g {public msg} The directory would only be obvious if you found it, normal users wouldn't be able to find it as there would be no links to it on other pages

Tue Jun 18 11:51:30 2002 mark g {public msg} Melissa

Tue Jun 18 11:51:41 2002 melissa {public msg} Sorry, I missed something here. Were you being sarcastic when you said "sounds good"?

Tue Jun 18 11:51:51 2002 melissa {public msg} Or is it okay?

Tue Jun 18 11:52:37 2002 melissa {public msg} (to create an overture directory as netman suggested..)

Tue Jun 18 11:52:45 2002 mark g {public msg} What I meant was, search engines don't like mirror pages, if you made it obvious to them why you were doing it (to track PPC traffic) it would be a good idea

Tue Jun 18 11:52:55 2002 melissa {public msg} Ok! Thanks.

Tue Jun 18 11:53:07 2002 mark g {public msg} so no, not sarcasm for a change!

Tue Jun 18 11:53:13 2002 netman {public msg} it's just more work doing each mirror page while with directory it's not

Tue Jun 18 11:53:36 2002 netman {public msg} thanks Mark ;)

Tue Jun 18 11:53:38 2002 mark g {public msg} I like Cookies better anyway

Tue Jun 18 11:53:46 2002 mark g {public msg} no worries Netman

Tue Jun 18 11:53:58 2002 frisco {public msg} so how do you make a mirror page "obvious" that it's ok for SEs?

Tue Jun 18 11:54:53 2002 mark g {public msg} With Robots txt, and in a folder called 'PPC' or 'Overture' or something like that.

Tue Jun 18 11:55:30 2002 frisco {public msg} ok

Tue Jun 18 11:55:34 2002 mark g {public msg} cool

Tue Jun 18 11:55:38 2002 mark g {public msg} any other questions?

Tue Jun 18 11:56:01 2002 frisco {public msg} ?

Tue Jun 18 11:56:29 2002 sallyk {public msg} no, thanks and I'll look at the transcript of the first part when it's up to see what I missed!!

Tue Jun 18 11:56:29 2002 frisco {public msg} where can we learn more about setting up this kind of account for clients?

Tue Jun 18 11:56:31 2002 mark g {public msg} go for it

Tue Jun 18 11:56:58 2002 mark g {public msg} A re seller account?

Tue Jun 18 11:57:05 2002 mark g {public msg} or just an account?

Tue Jun 18 11:57:06 2002 frisco {public msg} yes

Tue Jun 18 11:57:17 2002 mark g {public msg} contact the PPC provider directly

Tue Jun 18 11:57:22 2002 frisco {public msg} account - for client - sorry

Tue Jun 18 11:57:47 2002 mark g {public msg} they are all to happy to do deals if they think they will make more money, funny that!!

Tue Jun 18 11:58:08 2002 mark g {public msg} just ring up customer services and tell them you are an SEO

Tue Jun 18 11:58:30 2002 mark g {public msg} ok?

Tue Jun 18 11:58:38 2002 frisco {public msg} ok thanks

Tue Jun 18 11:58:54 2002 mark g {public msg} Thanks everyone for coming, I hope it was useful to you all