Conducted by Natalia Kim

Academy of Web Specialists

Take search engine marketing training!

Fri Feb 15 08:00:28 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} Hi and welcome! I'm Natalia Kim, from Sweden though living in Spain.

Fri Feb 15 08:00:57 2002 burgwald {public msg} hi

Fri Feb 15 08:01:21 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} Are you both working actively with clients or do you "only" :-))) work for your own sites???

Fri Feb 15 08:02:08 2002 burgwald {public msg} I am just learning so I will start out on my sites

Fri Feb 15 08:02:44 2002 burgwald {public msg} when I understand more I will work with clients

Fri Feb 15 08:03:51 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} OK, just to know who we are :-)) So, how do YOU track what you do for your sites???

Fri Feb 15 08:02:44 2002 burgwald {public msg} are you the teach?

Fri Feb 15 08:04:42 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} Well, I believe these chats are more like brainstorming than "teaching" but yes, I do teach, mainly for Spanish students...

Fri Feb 15 08:05:13 2002 burgwald {public msg} how do you set up a client

Fri Feb 15 08:05:32 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} Anyhow, I can start with what I -and my employees do for tracking and reporting, both for ourselves and for clients.

Fri Feb 15 08:05:55 2002 burgwald {public msg} great

Fri Feb 15 08:06:15 2002 quigmi {public msg} that sounds good

Fri Feb 15 08:06:39 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} The first thing we do is to "reason" everything we will do in a document. We write it almost like a "novel", showing the old -if any- meta tags, and explaining, if necessary, why we delete some keywords and chose others.

Fri Feb 15 08:08:08 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} We try to tell them EVERYTHING we do... especially when the client's webmasters kind of "hates us" from the beginning, because he/she believes we want to destroy the look of the page...

Fri Feb 15 08:09:30 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} Actually, part of what we promise the clients, even the basic ones, is that we "guide" them in order to understand the basic of the basic regarding SEO...

Fri Feb 15 08:09:57 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} Are you still around??? I hate to make a monologue :-(((

Fri Feb 15 08:10:06 2002 burgwald {public msg} yes

Fri Feb 15 08:10:22 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} Cool :-)))

Fri Feb 15 08:11:27 2002 burgwald {public msg} do you use any tools :-))))

Fri Feb 15 08:11:48 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} You mean for reporting or just "general" tools???

Fri Feb 15 08:12:14 2002 burgwald {public msg} both

Fri Feb 15 08:12:30 2002 burgwald {public msg} what is your reporting format

Fri Feb 15 08:13:36 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} Well yes, I swear to a few ones: When I start out on a site the first thing I do is a broken-link-check with Xenu software and send the report. That also gives me map of the website AND a list of URLs with a title on them.

Fri Feb 15 08:15:32 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} For reporting I use, apart from the simple document putting in writing our actions, we use both the reports generated by, for example, Españadir, TopDog and WebPosition Gold BUT, we ALWAYS keep an excel sheet to track EVERYTHING!!! For some clients it grows HUGE and we have to send them "pieces"...

Fri Feb 15 08:16:23 2002 webman {public msg} ?

Fri Feb 15 08:17:45 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} We make the following columns: URL promoted (the page we promote) - SUBMITTED (where we submit it to, post a message or WHATEVER we do and where - DATE (of action) - LANGUAGE (we work with a lot of multilingual clients, most are at least Spanish/English)

Fri Feb 15 08:22:35 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} And, obviously, then we have a columns for TEXT (which we normally use only for messages if we post in forums, newsgroups or something) + COMMENTS (where we put anything ELSE)

Fri Feb 15 08:24:10 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} The good thing about this SIMPLE format is that it's also simple to sort. So we can see which URL's have been worked on, dates, etc. Actually, we've tried more "complex" reports but they all end up being messier...

Fri Feb 15 08:24:26 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} Any comments???

Fri Feb 15 08:24:52 2002 webman {public msg} Have you ever tried the service at webrank.com?

Fri Feb 15 08:27:18 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} No, I'd heard about it but I never tried it... However, so far I haven't found any "automatic" services that really helped me out (I wish!)...

Fri Feb 15 08:27:31 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} Actually we swear to doing a LOT of manual work... But the results do show up...

Fri Feb 15 08:27:50 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} Did you try it, Webman???

Fri Feb 15 08:29:45 2002 webman {public msg} no, but I've heard good things about it and was wondering if it's like the "poor man's webposition gold."

Fri Feb 15 08:29:59 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} Also, I'm trying out a software called Xmanage for tracking, though it doesn't have all the options to fill in information that I use with the excel sheet...

Fri Feb 15 08:30:43 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} I'll sign up for a trial and see what happens. I'm a believer in trying EVERYTHING... especially because a lot of times at least you LEARN something or get good ideas :-)))

Fri Feb 15 08:30:59 2002 burgwald {public msg} could I get your e mail

Fri Feb 15 08:31:30 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} sure: nataliakim

Fri Feb 15 08:31:43 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} Are you from Germany, Burgwald???

Fri Feb 15 08:32:54 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} I see, that's why your nick sounds German :-)

Fri Feb 15 08:32:19 2002 burgwald {public msg} no the US, my father's father was from Germany

Fri Feb 15 08:32:30 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} Do any of you use a lot of international SEs :-)))

Fri Feb 15 08:32:41 2002 webman {public msg} not me

Fri Feb 15 08:32:59 2002 webman {public msg} what's the best way you use to get clients

Fri Feb 15 08:33:27 2002 burgwald {public msg} I was a system analyst 25 years ago

Fri Feb 15 08:34:08 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} Word of mouth. And a lot of "casual - social" mentioning "what I do" and I also write articles for an online mag, I organize a webmaster conference...

Fri Feb 15 08:34:29 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} PLUS... I've been on the Internet since 1994 so I'm pretty well known...

Fri Feb 15 08:34:58 2002 webman {public msg} but when you were starting how did you "get the word out there?"

Fri Feb 15 08:35:37 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} Anyway, MOST of my clients are clients that already paid for a cheap and "foolproof" services like: we-submit-your-website-to-trillions-of-searchengines-and-get-you--a-number-one-position

Fri Feb 15 08:36:13 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} THEN, when they can see that they are nowhere to be found eventually they knock on our door...

Fri Feb 15 08:37:18 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} The thing I like BEST, however, is when old clients come BACK for more service/positioning...

Fri Feb 15 08:39:05 2002 webman {public msg} so you started off with one client and through word of mouth, it just grew from there?

Fri Feb 15 08:39:23 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} Yes, it kind of "snowballed"... :-)))

Fri Feb 15 08:40:06 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} I also have the services online, of course, like on http://promociondewebs.com (where I actually explain almost step-by-step what we do and how...)

Fri Feb 15 08:40:30 2002 burgwald {public msg} web man try new business at your court house

Fri Feb 15 08:40:58 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} ??? Court house???

Fri Feb 15 08:41:29 2002 burgwald {public msg} all new businesses need a license

Fri Feb 15 08:41:51 2002 burgwald {public msg} even if they're going on the intenet

Fri Feb 15 08:42:32 2002 burgwald {public msg} you can get their business, name and phone number

Fri Feb 15 08:43:06 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} Oh, sure. Mine is completely legal... Lot of taxes though, as these are services, you don't have a lot of expenses -except for headache pills :-)))

Fri Feb 15 08:43:09 2002 burgwald {public msg} and go see them or send them a postcard outlining your services

Fri Feb 15 08:43:55 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} Yes! I did a Christmas greeting this year and already got the money back thanks to a few new clients just because of that!!!

Fri Feb 15 08:44:16 2002 webman {public msg} Do you know how I could get e-mail addresses of new businesses or because they have e-mail addresses already are they no longer good prospects?

Fri Feb 15 08:45:35 2002 burgwald {public msg} call them is the only way I know of

Fri Feb 15 08:45:58 2002 webman {public msg} thanks

Fri Feb 15 08:46:24 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} I believe you should hunt for e-mail addresses one-by-one. What I do if I want to know the email for a website that I believe is interesting for one reason or another, I always use the e-mail they have as the administration contact in the who-is of networksolution. It almost always ends up to be the REAL e-mail to the owner...

Fri Feb 15 08:46:38 2002 burgwald {public msg} I have set up over 600 of merchants to take credit cards that way

Fri Feb 15 08:47:09 2002 webman {public msg} I thought it was illegal to use those e-mail addresses for marketing purposes?

Fri Feb 15 08:47:37 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} CONGRATULATIONS!!! So you actually call them and ask them if they want to accept credit cards??? In the US only or...???

Fri Feb 15 08:48:03 2002 burgwald {public msg} I call them first and they give me their email address

Fri Feb 15 08:48:17 2002 burgwald {public msg} yes

Fri Feb 15 08:48:34 2002 burgwald {public msg} kim yes

Fri Feb 15 08:48:39 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} It IS illegal to spam, but it's NOT illegal to write to somebody on a one-on-one basis. But DO make sure you write the name of both the owner and the website.

Fri Feb 15 08:48:55 2002 burgwald {public msg} look at my web site www.etakecreditcards.com

Fri Feb 15 08:49:54 2002 webman {public msg} ok, thanks

Fri Feb 15 08:50:43 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} NICE SITE, Burgwald!!!

Fri Feb 15 08:51:11 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} Burgwald, you don't offer any dialer solutions???

Fri Feb 15 08:52:09 2002 burgwald {public msg} they are working on that

Fri Feb 15 08:52:44 2002 burgwald {public msg} my other site is www.eincomeinfo.com

Fri Feb 15 08:52:54 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} I collaborate with a very good dialer company in the UK. They have a great technology.

Fri Feb 15 08:53:14 2002 burgwald {public msg} get me the info

Fri Feb 15 08:53:44 2002 burgwald {public msg} my email is burgwaldc

Fri Feb 15 08:54:07 2002 michaelh {public msg} I was doing some final web site checks on my website and when I went to run a report on the site it said I was redirecting my site.........what was strange it said I was redirecting to the same address. Have you ever heard of this?

Fri Feb 15 08:55:26 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} Jeff Hirst is my contact and the email is: jeff Their website is: http://www.coulomb.co.uk

Fri Feb 15 08:55:48 2002 burgwald {public msg} thanks

Fri Feb 15 08:56:31 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} Michael, how did you make the checks???

Fri Feb 15 08:56:54 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} Which URL did this happen to???

Fri Feb 15 08:56:57 2002 michaelh {public msg} through web site garage

Fri Feb 15 08:57:22 2002 michaelh {public msg} my host told me to submit the site without the www..............I have never heard of this

Fri Feb 15 08:57:31 2002 michaelh {public msg} he said all of the sites he hosts do that

Fri Feb 15 08:58:00 2002 michaelh {public msg} will that hurt me in when I submit my site

Fri Feb 15 08:58:11 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} Oh, I see... No, I've never heard about it... Yes, the without www depends on how the hostmaster configures the server. ALL my domains can be used with or without the www...

Fri Feb 15 08:58:25 2002 webman {public msg} Anyone know what would cause a site to not print beyond a certain point? I have a very long web page and after two printed pages, it just gives me a blank page and doesn't print the rest. Very frustrating.

Fri Feb 15 08:58:36 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} No, the wwws will not hurt in submitting...

Fri Feb 15 08:58:54 2002 michaelh {public msg} should I submit with the www

Fri Feb 15 08:58:58 2002 michaelh {public msg} or without

Fri Feb 15 08:59:07 2002 michaelh {public msg} or does it matter

Fri Feb 15 08:59:10 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} I believe it's not the fault of your page but of your printer running out of memory... Is it a postscript one???

Fri Feb 15 08:59:40 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} I submit with our without, depends on how I "happen" to do it...

Fri Feb 15 09:00:15 2002 webman {public msg} a postscript printer?

Fri Feb 15 09:00:28 2002 webman {public msg} it's a bubble jet printer

Fri Feb 15 09:00:51 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} Burgwald: This is Jeff's other domain: http://www.netdialers.com/

Fri Feb 15 09:00:56 2002 michaelh {public msg} so I guess you are saying it doesn't matter either way?

Fri Feb 15 09:01:20 2002 burgwald {public msg} thanks

Fri Feb 15 09:01:22 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} Well, I believe even bubble jets might have trouble to absorb a huge amount of information...

Fri Feb 15 09:01:34 2002 webman {public msg} Michael, when I ran a movie memorabilia site, a lot of people accessed my site without the www and they got through fine

Fri Feb 15 09:01:41 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} Yes, Michael, it shouldn't matter with or without.

Fri Feb 15 09:01:48 2002 michaelh {public msg} ok great thank you

Fri Feb 15 09:02:07 2002 webman {public msg} I don't know, I've printed 120 page movie scripts with no trouble. Hmmm...

Fri Feb 15 09:02:24 2002 burgwald {public msg} I have a bubble jet and I can print 500 pages with no problem

Fri Feb 15 09:04:02 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} IF I disappear it's not me being rude but my computer acting up :-(((

Fri Feb 15 09:04:03 2002 webman {public msg} maybe you could take a look at the page and tell me?

Fri Feb 15 09:04:16 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} Yes, which URL is it, webman???

Fri Feb 15 09:04:17 2002 webman {public msg} ok, natalia

Fri Feb 15 09:04:35 2002 webman {public msg} www.search-engine-optimization-pros.com/what-is-seo.html

Fri Feb 15 09:04:38 2002 webman {public msg} Thanks

Fri Feb 15 09:09:30 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} I think you should delete this line from the code:

Fri Feb 15 09:10:36 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} It's the very first line that's on top of the title tag. BTW, how come you don't have nor description nor keywords in the tags? IF you don't want to use them, just delete them...

Fri Feb 15 09:11:22 2002 webman {public msg} I'm still building the site. I'll put them in when I do the SEO stuff

Fri Feb 15 09:12:27 2002 webman {public msg} that line just tells the document what level of HTML the document is. If you use the HTML validator at w3.org, it will add that line automatically.

Fri Feb 15 09:12:35 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} I believe you should do it ASAP, because IF the client looks at the code he will feel bewildered that you don't seem to do what you preach :-(((

Fri Feb 15 09:13:24 2002 webman {public msg} well nobody knows about the site yet. It's not registered with any SEs or directories or has any link popularity.

Fri Feb 15 09:13:26 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} I know, make a habit of deleting all those AUTOMATIC lines from code. You want ALL the code just for positioning... And you don't want to promote anybody else, right? :-)))

Fri Feb 15 09:13:43 2002 webman {public msg} true

Fri Feb 15 09:13:51 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} It's very nicely designed and the copy is great!!! :-)))

Fri Feb 15 09:14:12 2002 webman {public msg} Thanks very much. Coming from a professional, that means a lot.

Fri Feb 15 09:14:59 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} Also, do configure the error pages ASAP!!!

Fri Feb 15 09:15:34 2002 webman {public msg} do you mean the custom 404 page?

Fri Feb 15 09:16:43 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} yes, it's EXTREMELY useful!!

Fri Feb 15 09:17:34 2002 webman {public msg} I know I plan on doing that. Any tips on what to put on it, besides the obvious "You've made a mistake" message

Fri Feb 15 09:18:13 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} I put publicity on them, to gain commission :-)))

Fri Feb 15 09:18:55 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} AND I also put link to all my other domains, just in case they want to "get lost" ... so I make sure they stay with me as long as possible...

Fri Feb 15 09:19:42 2002 webman {public msg} Great idea. What do you think about using SE-related affiliates, like Planet Ocean. Do you think that's wise?

Fri Feb 15 09:19:46 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} How will you guarantee the top-5 positions, webman???

Fri Feb 15 09:20:16 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} Yes, that's a good idea. I also use Internet Marketing Secrets. They pay very well...

Fri Feb 15 09:22:02 2002 burgwald {public msg} I have been with them for a year and am building a web site how do you promote that site

Fri Feb 15 09:22:49 2002 webman {public msg} I never said I'd get top-5 positions. I said that out of 14 search engines, and directories, I'd get 5 top listings.

Fri Feb 15 09:23:36 2002 webman {public msg} you asking me burgwald or natalia?

Fri Feb 15 09:23:55 2002 burgwald {public msg} kim

Fri Feb 15 09:24:01 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} Sorry, that's what I meant...

Fri Feb 15 09:24:30 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} You are with Internet Marketing Secrets??? Great!

Fri Feb 15 09:24:37 2002 burgwald {public msg} yes

Fri Feb 15 09:24:42 2002 webman {public msg} I figure if I can't get 5 results in 14 SEs, I'm doing something wrong.

Fri Feb 15 09:25:49 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} Not necessarily. It all depends on the keywords... and how much the clients allows you to "tweak" their design upon optimizing. I always tell mine that the ONLY guarantee I give them is: a: To put in all the knowledge and effort I can b: To teach them to help themselves... if they want to...

Fri Feb 15 09:29:48 2002 webman {public msg} what do you do about clients who demand some sort of guarantee?

Fri Feb 15 09:32:27 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} I explain a + b once again. And tell them that unless the directories and SE's are MINE I can't promise such a thing... However, most of my clients get VERY satisfactory positions for several of their favorite keywords... And they do come back for more service. And they send me their friends so I suppose I do SOMETHING right...

Fri Feb 15 09:32:56 2002 webman {public msg} cool

Fri Feb 15 09:33:29 2002 webman {public msg} does explaining a+b usually convince them?

Fri Feb 15 09:33:30 2002 burgwald {public msg} how do you determine rates

Fri Feb 15 09:33:48 2002 webman {public msg} the million dollar question!

Fri Feb 15 09:33:55 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} Yes, normally it does the trick. a+b+honesty.

Fri Feb 15 09:33:58 2002 webman {public msg} I have yet to get a straight answer on this one

Fri Feb 15 09:34:15 2002 webman {public msg} cool. thanks

Fri Feb 15 09:34:53 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} Rates are tough!! I have 3 general rates: A basic one for about 450 Euros, another for 900 and the third "personalized" depending on how much work they need...

Fri Feb 15 09:35:27 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} I really have to rrrrrrun. Anyway, please do stay in touch either for another chat session or just drop me an email, OK?

Fri Feb 15 09:35:36 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} nataliakim

Fri Feb 15 09:35:40 2002 burgwald {public msg} what kind of time per each rate do you spend

Fri Feb 15 09:36:19 2002 webman {public msg} thanks

Fri Feb 15 09:36:21 2002 burgwald {public msg} thanks this has been a very good session

Fri Feb 15 09:36:26 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} Mostly a basic service is done over a month + the waiting to see how the rankings behave (results)...

Fri Feb 15 09:37:00 2002 nataliakim2 {public msg} Thanks to you, I enjoyed it and I believe you both have a great business ahead!!! I'll check you closely :-))) Stay in touch, PLEASE!