Chat Session 

Conducted for Students of the
Academy of Web Specialists 

Conducted by Sally Kavanagh

Academy of Web Specialists

Take search engine marketing training!

07:03:21 sallyk What sort of sites do you optimise?
07:03:40 webman so far just my own
07:03:43 frisco who?
07:04:10 sallyk both of you please, what is the subject of yours webman
07:04:15 webman this is the one I plan on optimizing next: newbusinesslistings.com
07:04:31 sallyk and you frisco
07:04:55 frisco I'm working on several for 
a marketing firm - I build sites promoting brick/mortar merchants
07:05:05 webman it's a subscription-based site. Most of the pages are dynamic and database-driven so there aren't too many public pages to optimize
07:05:29 frisco Mine are public - no db or dynamic.
07:05:50 sallyk ok, Robin has suggested that we give a brief intro and then see how things progress so..
07:06:03 sallyk I want to put a few ideas forward and then ask you to come back to me and let me know which areas are of most interest and we can then go on to discuss them and see if we can come up with some suggestions that might help improve our sites' performance.
07:06:10 webman but I definitely want to know how to optimize for sales
07:06:38 sallyk ok, let me do my intro bit first (its not very long)
07:06:45 sallyk Getting a good ranking is 
only the start.  A good ranking is no use if it doesn't result in traffic and traffic is no use if it doesn't result in sales (or whatever success criteria are relevant to your site).
07:07:03 sallyk We'll assume that you have got good rankings.  Is the site generating good traffic levels.  This begs the question - do you know what traffic levels you are getting and how they found the site.  This means have you got a satisfactory analysis system set up and are you using it to extract the data you need.
07:07:17 sallyk If traffic is not as good 
as it needs to be - why not.
07:07:35 sallyk One of two reasons is the most likely.  Either you are targeting the wrong keywords or the description that accompanies the listing is not attractive to visitors.
07:08:24 sallyk hi - I'm just providing a brief intro - some ideas for discussion.  I'll run it through again
07:08:41 sallyk Getting a good ranking is only the start.  A good ranking is no use if it doesn't result in traffic and traffic is no use if it doesn't result in sales (or whatever success criteria are relevant to your site).
07:09:01 sallyk We'll assume that you have got good rankings.  Is the site generating good traffic levels.  This begs the question - do you know what traffic levels you are getting and how they found the site.  This means have you got a satisfactory analysis system set up and are you using it to extract the data you need.
07:09:18 sallyk If traffic is not as good as it needs to be - why not.
07:09:28 sallyk One of two reasons is the most likely.  Either you are targeting the wrong keywords or the description that accompanies the listing is not attractive to visitors.
07:09:37 sallyk Another scenario is that you are getting the traffic but it is not developing into enquiries.  Why not?
07:09:53 sallyk Again you might be targeting the wrong keywords and so, in effect, you are attracting the wrong visitors, not ones that are interested in your product or 
service.  Or maybe they are the right visitors but there is problem with either site design or usability that needs to be looked into.
07:11:07 sallyk thats my intro, perhaps one of you would like to pick up on an area that interests you particularly
07:11:49 frisco what makes a "satisfactory traffic analysis system"?
07:12:14 sallyk one that gives the info 
you want and need in a way you can understand would be my definition
07:12:35 sallyk I tend to work for clients with very small web site budgets...
07:12:42 frisco You mean like through server logs?
07:12:55 sallyk so I use the hitslink package.
07:13:36 sallyk you can use the logs that 
are provided by the host but as these are all presented differently I find it takes a while to get to grips with each format.
07:13:48 sallyk So I tell my clients I like to use hitslink
07:14:19 sallyk Because my clients are usually very web savvy they often use hosts with poor stats packages anyway.
07:14:34 sallyk sorry, not very web savvy that should have been!!
07:15:21 sallyk you need to know the numbers of unique visitors, where they are coming from, and how they are navigating around the site
07:15:46 sallyk I think webtrends is a much better package, but is it a lot more expensive.
07:16:28 sallyk does that help frisco?
07:16:42 webman how about talking a bit about solutions for each problem mentioned in your intro
07:16:50 frisco Yes. thanks. Are there other packages you might recommend?
07:17:32 sallyk I am only familiar with hitslink (associated with web position gold) and webtrends by reputation
07:18:16 sallyk I should say that hitslink involves putting javascript on the page, which is not ideal.  But then nothing is in this world.
07:19:21 sallyk The main point is though 
that you need to know from somewhere who is coming to your site and from where, ie how they are finding you
07:19:38 webman ok, can we actually talk about solutions now please?
07:20:05 sallyk yes, what area do you want to talk about webman
07:21:12 webman lte's talk about possible solutions for each problem mentioned in your intro.  For example, how do you know if there is a usability problem or some other kind of problem accounting for the fact that you're not getting enquiries?
07:22:02 sallyk If your rankings are good and your enquiries are low, then you need to ask why.
07:22:18 sallyk and go through the possible reasons
07:22:19 webman asking is the easy part
07:22:42 sallyk I disagree, once you have found the right question you are nearly at the answer very often
07:23:00 sallyk OK, rankings are good 
enquiries are low..
07:23:06 sallyk what is traffic like?
07:23:16 sallyk do you know?
07:24:04 webman well, I haven't optimized my site yet, so I wouldn't know.  I'm just looking for pitfalls to avoid once I do.
07:24:20 sallyk ok.
07:25:01 sallyk if your rankings are good, 
then you should be getting traffic, if you are not then I would look first at the descriptions that go with those listings.
07:25:47 sallyk if you are getting traffic but not enquiries, I would question the keyword - am I attracting the wrong type of visitor.
07:26:09 sallyk I would also look at my 
stats and see how visitors were moving around the site.
07:27:28 frisco Assume good traffic, but want better follow-through, so you make some changes in keywords, appearance or description...
07:27:35 frisco After a site has been submitted/listed, how often do spiders revisit the page(s)? And does this meta work?
07:28:31 sallyk depends on the search 
engine.  I use the positontech service for Inktomi engines and that respiders every 48 hours (or says it does).
07:29:04 sallyk of course, each engine has then got to update its listings from the Inktomi database but they do it pretty quickly
07:29:12 webman depends on the SE.  Inktomi uses meta tags but they are the only ones that still do.
07:29:59 sallyk I think more than that 
still use the meta description - not for ranking but for displaying the description
07:30:33 sallyk I'll check up on that.
07:30:55 webman the problem with the meta description is that if a site uses both inktomi and looksmart, like 
MSN, the looksmart description, which you have no control over, takes precedence.
07:32:01 sallyk exactly - all you can ever do is the best you can though
07:32:51 sallyk I use Looksmart UK and I questioned one of their descriptions.  They came back to me almost by return with what I wanted.
07:33:09 webman unless you're willing to cough up $50 to change the description
07:33:58 sallyk Not sure if the other Looksmarts are as good or if I was just lukky I the letter see won't work on my keyboard!!
07:39:12 sallyk Perhaps we should talk a bit about how visitors use the site.  Stats should be used to see how visitors navigate a site
07:39:32 webman can you see how visitors use a dynamic site?
07:40:25 sallyk I don't currently look after any dynamic sites, so I'm not sure.  You would certainly be able to look at the static parts of it.
07:41:31 sallyk You could see for instance if visitors were leaving the site or progressing into the dynamic part of it
07:41:45 sallyk leaving the site from the index page I mean
07:42:04 webman well, they'd need to pay to progress into the dynamic part, since it's a subscription site.
07:42:35 sallyk you don't need  then - just look at the takings
07:43:27 sallyk but you should be looking at how many sign up and how many leave the site before being given that option
07:44:26 sallyk Also, try your site out from a new visitors perspective.  Is it easy to see where to go and how to proceed.  Are you keeping to the ideal of 2 clicks to get to anywhere on the site
07:45:39 webman that's where I seem to 
differ from other people.  I think it's OK, but others have questions
07:46:27 webman I've addressed some of those concerns with javascript alerts though
07:46:50 webman if you want to check out the site, go to newbusinesslistings.com
07:47:33 sallyk you have got to appeal to least able visitor, its very easy when you are working with the web all day to lose track of how unfamiliar with how the web works a lot of people are
07:49:38 sallyk seems pretty easy to follow to me, at first glance usability isn't a problem
07:50:26 sallyk what would be the reason for subscribing, who are you targeting
07:50:53 webman people that want to advertise to new business owners
07:51:25 frisco first off, I think your background conflicts with your text.
07:51:36 webman could be anyone from credit card companies to office supply stores
07:51:39 sallyk so they would search on particular business activities
07:52:14 sallyk eg new businesses likely to want office supplies in New England
07:52:30 webman exactly
07:52:57 webman only the site is divided up by state, so New England is a little broad
07:54:13 sallyk I understand.  what sort of sign up rates are you getting
07:55:28 webman I haven't optimized it yet, so not too many people know about ti yet.  I did have to tell one woman who wanted to subscribe a couple of weeks ago that I wasn'tfor business yet, but I'm hopeful
07:55:58 sallyk I think frisco might have a point, soften the background a bit.
07:56:59 sallyk but I like the uncluttered approach
07:57:13 webman thanks
07:57:25 frisco smaller buttons - or better yet, text links - should be able to read all above the fold.
07:57:39 webman I asked a group of web designers and they thought it looked too amateurish
07:58:33 frisco there are no alt tags for your buttons
07:59:33 sallyk The trouble with asking 
web designers is that they are interested in the design, not the navigation and usability
08:00:54 webman the alt tags show up on my browser
08:00:59 sallyk yes, ask them but try looking at useit.com  That does look amateurish but it works.  Which site would you go back to, one that loads quickly and is simple to navigate or one with bells and whistles and looks pretty
08:01:32 sallyk I can see the alt tags
08:01:38 frisco sorry - I'm looking at buttons in Netscape because I'm using IE for this chat.08:01:57 webman no problem
08:02:12 frisco oh - down at the bottom - duh!
08:02:55 frisco but getting things higher 
on the page so no scrolling is good.
08:03:50 webman I don't understand what you mean
08:04:40 frisco I have a big monitor, but still have to scroll to see everything. If the visitor can read everything with no scrolling, that's better.
08:05:06 webman what resolution are you using?
08:06:12 frisco 1024 x 768 - but most of the real world is still on standard 800 x 640
08:06:50 sallyk I would try to get all the links on the screen without scrolling but not everything else if it means the text gets small or cluttered
08:07:16 webman the  you should be able to see all the links above the fold.  I use the same resolution and I can see all the buttons without scrolling.
08:07:25 webman the=then
08:07:54 sallyk I only get home and demo buttons above the fold
08:08:00 webman interesting
08:08:05 frisco buttons, yes, but not all text
08:08:41 webman not having all text above the fold is to be expected
08:08:44 sallyk anyway, we are running out of time.  I hope there was some food for thought.
08:08:52 webman yes, thanks
08:09:05 sallyk hope to see you again. Bye for now.