Conducted by John Alexander

Academy of Web Specialists

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Thu Apr 11 08:07:53 2002 johna {public msg} Here's a question.....How many of you have joined the local Chamber of Commerce yet?

Thu Apr 11 08:08:08 2002 geejay {public msg} I did 14 years ago

Thu Apr 11 08:08:15 2002 sharonc {public msg} not me why?

Thu Apr 11 08:08:16 2002 royco {public msg} I used to be a member with my last company

Thu Apr 11 08:08:22 2002 sallyk {public msg} I used to belong but now prefer the Fed of Small Businesses

Thu Apr 11 08:08:31 2002 royco {public msg} will join again soon

Thu Apr 11 08:08:37 2002 marie {public msg} I've joined.

Thu Apr 11 08:09:22 2002 johna {public msg} I wanted to talk about a little alternative approach to networking a little later.

Thu Apr 11 08:10:15 2002 johna {public msg} Glad to see so many already joined up but sometimes you want to do things in a little different fashion than everyone else.

Thu Apr 11 08:10:27 2002 johna {public msg} More about this later on...

Thu Apr 11 08:11:00 2002 johna {public msg} Here are a few tips which should help you make early strong impressions with new prospects

Thu Apr 11 08:11:40 2002 johna {public msg} It's not all about SEO you know.....SEO is about what YOU do

Thu Apr 11 08:12:15 2002 johna {public msg} The reason you are consulting with a prospect is focused on what they do...

Thu Apr 11 08:12:28 2002 johna {public msg} Make sure and do some preliminary research on your prospects business.

Thu Apr 11 08:13:18 2002 johna {public msg} Your focus is never to sell SEO.....instead, try to really offer things that build rapport....

Thu Apr 11 08:13:43 2002 johna {public msg} If you build a relationship...you WILL sell SEO

Thu Apr 11 08:14:04 2002 johna {public msg} Remember that solving your prospects problems, can instantly establish credibility, particularly if their challenge is weighing heavy on their mind.

Thu Apr 11 08:14:38 2002 johna {public msg} Everyone has challenges

Thu Apr 11 08:15:01 2002 geejay {public msg} To establish credibility

Thu Apr 11 08:15:06 2002 johna {public msg} Watch for opportunities to recognize your prospects challenge and offer a unique solution.

Thu Apr 11 08:15:41 2002 johna {public msg} Can I say that again? What should you watch for? "OPPORTUNITIES"

Thu Apr 11 08:16:31 2002 johna {public msg} They will surface in dialogue with a prospect...but if you are so busy trying to sell something....YOU will miss it.

Thu Apr 11 08:17:45 2002 johna {public msg} Credibility is a big thing today....there are lots of scammers about and individuals who make big promises and no intention to of fulfilling them.

Thu Apr 11 08:18:06 2002 johna {public msg} Your prospect has hear it ALL (likely)

Thu Apr 11 08:18:18 2002 johna {public msg} Remember that for some prospects, you attaining top 10 positioning for their site, is just too "HARD for them to believe".

Thu Apr 11 08:19:22 2002 johna {public msg} I still have clients who are just AMAZED to see their site surface to Top 5 spots....they really did not think they would ever see it!

Thu Apr 11 08:20:20 2002 webman {public msg} I had this client who wanted me to optimize his home page and a doorway domain...

Thu Apr 11 08:21:08 2002 webman {public msg} his home page was in a frame (although you couldn't tell this by looking at the page)...

Thu Apr 11 08:21:39 2002 webman {public msg} He told me to e-mail him so he has my e-mail address and then he'll e-mail me the code that he wants me to optimize.

Thu Apr 11 08:21:49 2002 webman {public msg} This was two days ago and I haven't heard from him since.

Thu Apr 11 08:22:12 2002 johna {public msg} Did you quote him a price?

Thu Apr 11 08:22:26 2002 webman {public msg} yes

Thu Apr 11 08:22:43 2002 johna {public msg} Was he a sea captain? :o)

Thu Apr 11 08:22:51 2002 royco {public msg} lol

Thu Apr 11 08:23:10 2002 webman {public msg} i.e. did he steer his ship away from my iceberg?

Thu Apr 11 08:23:54 2002 webman {public msg} I don't know.

Thu Apr 11 08:24:00 2002 webman {public msg} I just haven't heard from him.

Thu Apr 11 08:24:07 2002 johna {public msg} Yup....he was just trying to find an expert SEO who would work at an extremely low cost.....probably free!

Thu Apr 11 08:25:25 2002 johna {public msg} Don't be so quick to offer a quote....try asking questions and engage in dialogue....build rapport and sure...give him a quote in time

Thu Apr 11 08:25:49 2002 johna {public msg} Let me continue...we'll talk more about this later...

Thu Apr 11 08:25:54 2002 webman {public msg} ok

Thu Apr 11 08:26:10 2002 johna {public msg} Don't tell them something that's hard to believe! It's far better to tell them the truth, set reasonable expectations and then out-perform what you said.

Thu Apr 11 08:26:52 2002 johna {public msg} Remember...you set the expectations....most folks are tired of hearing a lot of hype.

Thu Apr 11 08:27:09 2002 johna {public msg} Like I said...they've heard it all before

Thu Apr 11 08:27:24 2002 webman {public msg} I would, but I never get that far :)

Thu Apr 11 08:27:52 2002 webman {public msg} anyway, continue please

Thu Apr 11 08:28:09 2002 geejay {public msg} May I ?

Thu Apr 11 08:28:31 2002 johna {public msg} I make it never a rule to give out a price before I establish Rapport. (That's just me...but I think there is something to be said for it)

Thu Apr 11 08:28:42 2002 johna {public msg} Geejay...yes

Thu Apr 11 08:30:06 2002 geejay {public msg} Web man. Johna is totally right. you got to act like a doctor does. your first make a good number of questions acting like a real pro. Then, you set realistic expectations. Shortly after comes the money issue.

Thu Apr 11 08:30:54 2002 webman {public msg} thanks, geejay

Thu Apr 11 08:31:00 2002 johna {public msg} Manage client expectations with wisdom. Try talking about your efforts to position them over a period of time. Not only is this idea true but it is much easier to understand.

Thu Apr 11 08:31:04 2002 geejay {public msg} No problem

Thu Apr 11 08:31:43 2002 johna {public msg} Talk about your working...with them...

Thu Apr 11 08:32:01 2002 johna {public msg} this is a collaborative effort...right?

Thu Apr 11 08:32:27 2002 johna {public msg} It's your SEO expertise.....but it's also based on their business.

Thu Apr 11 08:32:35 2002 webman {public msg} true

Thu Apr 11 08:32:53 2002 johna {public msg} Nobody is such an expert on their business as THEY are.

Thu Apr 11 08:33:16 2002 johna {public msg} They have a wealth of information to extract

Thu Apr 11 08:35:03 2002 johna {public msg} Your ideas and SEO skill mixed with their business brings great results. As an SEO our major concern should not just be limited to rank....but getting the results. (May not be true for everyone but the full consulting approach is wisdom)

Thu Apr 11 08:35:42 2002 johna {public msg} What about setting their expectations then? Think about what you know ...and what you will say.

Thu Apr 11 08:36:42 2002 johna {public msg} You know through Inktomi's Inclusion program you can get ultra fast indexing.

Thu Apr 11 08:37:01 2002 johna {public msg} But why let the cat totally out of the bag...?

Thu Apr 11 08:37:32 2002 johna {public msg} The client wants to know how soon he will get results?

Thu Apr 11 08:37:46 2002 johna {public msg} I like to set expectations for 6 to 8 weeks.

Thu Apr 11 08:38:14 2002 johna {public msg} Giving time for ALL the robots to make their way out

Thu Apr 11 08:39:29 2002 johna {public msg} Won't it be good when you can report back to the client that their site is already indexed and showing up in just 7 to 14 days (possibly in 48 hours)

Thu Apr 11 08:40:14 2002 johna {public msg} You get what I am saying here....set reasonable long term expectations...then it's easy to out perform them.

Thu Apr 11 08:40:19 2002 johna {public msg} I tell them that initially we'll be aiming for the top 30 results on the majors.

Thu Apr 11 08:40:49 2002 johna {public msg} I know that I can usually position a competitive phrase in the top 20 on at least half of the majors, but I don't tell them that.

Thu Apr 11 08:41:08 2002 johna {public msg} I like to set reasonable expectations and then "out perform" what I said I would do.

Thu Apr 11 08:41:33 2002 johna {public msg} What you are building for yourself is a long term relationship

Thu Apr 11 08:42:12 2002 johna {public msg} This same client will go on to brag about their own site and send YOU referral business

Thu Apr 11 08:42:42 2002 sallyk {public msg} If you give a timescale of 6-8 weeks, how do you time the invoicing side of it?

Thu Apr 11 08:43:05 2002 sallyk {public msg} what I mean is do you wait the 6-8 weeks

Thu Apr 11 08:43:21 2002 geejay {public msg} No !

Thu Apr 11 08:43:37 2002 johna {public msg} 50% is paid at the signing of the agreement and 50% outstanding balance is paid before the promotion commences

Thu Apr 11 08:43:52 2002 sallyk {public msg} so you get everything up front?

Thu Apr 11 08:44:14 2002 johna {public msg} Absolutely...this is the value of relationship building

Thu Apr 11 08:44:43 2002 johna {public msg} Yes Webman

Thu Apr 11 08:44:51 2002 webman {public msg} what if the client wants to see some results before paying the other 50%?

Thu Apr 11 08:47:16 2002 johna {public msg} This is not the way I do business. The client has a clear understanding that this is a long term arrangement. I turn people down all the time if they don't like my terms or also...here is something else. I will turn away a prospect if I cannot clearly identify that I can genuinely help them. I must have a comfort level that I can make a real difference.

Thu Apr 11 08:48:34 2002 johna {public msg} Geejay your comment?

Thu Apr 11 08:48:36 2002 geejay {public msg} Webman. Would a doctor get his money when he starts the treatment to cure you or when you get well ?

Thu Apr 11 08:49:10 2002 geejay {public msg} He gets his money first hoping that you will get well.

Thu Apr 11 08:49:19 2002 webman {public msg} if it's a serious disease, you'll have several appointments and get paid for every visit

Thu Apr 11 08:49:32 2002 geejay {public msg} Not with SEO

Thu Apr 11 08:49:53 2002 johna {public msg} I want everyone in this room to see your full potential? You ARE professionals like any other professional right?

Thu Apr 11 08:50:04 2002 webman {public msg} But as a budding SEO just staring out with little or no track record, is it wise to turn people away?

Thu Apr 11 08:50:15 2002 webman {public msg} right

Thu Apr 11 08:50:18 2002 geejay {public msg} Exactly

Thu Apr 11 08:51:34 2002 johna {public msg} In other words there may be cases where people want consultation and are willing to pay you to talk on the phone.

Thu Apr 11 08:52:23 2002 johna {public msg} I like to set reasonable expectations and then "out perform" what I said I would do.

Thu Apr 11 08:52:38 2002 johna {public msg} I like to target strategies fine tuned to search engines that Inktomi influences so if you do a good job SEO wise, you should see placement fairly quickly.

Thu Apr 11 08:52:52 2002 johna {public msg} These Inktomi influences will usually be strongest and first noticed within AOL, MSN, HOTBOT, IWON and Overture to name a few.

Thu Apr 11 08:53:04 2002 johna {public msg} This usually will convert the skeptics that positioning is attainable on major engines and can give your credibility a big boost.

Thu Apr 11 08:53:27 2002 johna {public msg} Make full use of Webposition Gold's positioning reports on some of your current clients. These make great sales tools for new prospects who may find it hard to convince.

Thu Apr 11 08:53:48 2002 johna {public msg} If you can sit down and show a prospect a positioning report for an actual strategy that you have done, it's real convincing....particularly when the prospect can examine the positions on the report and then invite them to actually do some searches to verify the top spots held

Thu Apr 11 08:54:07 2002 dawn {public msg} ? regarding wpg positioning reports

Thu Apr 11 08:54:16 2002 johna {public msg} I like to offer a report that shows something like 300 spots within the top 5 results and then about 100 spots at number one spot.

Thu Apr 11 08:54:40 2002 johna {public msg} Sometimes I will tie this in with an activity report showing a 3 month comparison to demonstrate the actual traffic growth is truly significant.

Thu Apr 11 08:55:02 2002 johna {public msg} IMPORTANT: Make sure that any client you want to use for references is comfortable and willing to have information shared. Some clients are very private about their strategies and you must respect this.

Thu Apr 11 08:55:20 2002 johna {public msg} Don't forget that as you start getting people great traffic results, start asking for their testimonials and comments.

Thu Apr 11 08:55:57 2002 johna {public msg} This is not hard to do....I think that some people just forget about their value.

Thu Apr 11 08:56:11 2002 johna {public msg} For example, a client of mine comes up and tells me a funny story about an order they had placed on their site.

Thu Apr 11 08:56:21 2002 johna {public msg} They go on to say how thankful they are to have my services... how much my efforts have helped their business.....I might STOP them right there.

Thu Apr 11 08:56:47 2002 johna {public msg} I simply say..."Could you do me a big favor"?

Thu Apr 11 08:57:14 2002 johna {public msg} If you have found my services to be really beneficial....would you please write your comments in an e-mail to me?

Thu Apr 11 08:57:38 2002 johna {public msg} I like to ask their permission to use their comments and occasionally, I may even ask them if they would mind taking a reference call.

Thu Apr 11 08:58:06 2002 johna {public msg} You'll find that your customers really don't mind....you just have to remember to ask them. They're usually happy to do it.

Thu Apr 11 08:58:22 2002 johna {public msg} Nothing speaks so well on your behalf....as solid references do.

Thu Apr 11 08:59:22 2002 johna {public msg} Now let's talk about a few networking tips...ideal for Chamber of Commerce.

Thu Apr 11 08:59:47 2002 johna {public msg} If you can, take a look around the next meeting and see who on the board of directors or perhaps the planning committee.

Thu Apr 11 09:00:15 2002 johna {public msg} While most people attend these functions to promote their business, I'm suggesting that you approach from a different angle.

Thu Apr 11 09:00:43 2002 johna {public msg} Find out if you can join one of the Chamber's "volunteer" committees. You may find that they need help and you'll always notice that it is just a handful of people who are the inside organizers. (Everyone else is just there to promote themselves-which is fine).

Thu Apr 11 09:01:44 2002 johna {public msg} When you see these committees, you'll often find that the people serving on them are simply volunteers....often they are leaders within your community.

Thu Apr 11 09:02:05 2002 johna {public msg} The committee might be for a Chamber project like organizing the local homeshow or other event.

Thu Apr 11 09:02:19 2002 johna {public msg} What I'm saying is try to get into the nucleus of things and become one of the contributors.

Thu Apr 11 09:02:27 2002 johna {public msg} Yes geejay

Thu Apr 11 09:02:49 2002 geejay {public msg} Please, let me explain this. I think it is important to some.

Thu Apr 11 09:03:07 2002 johna {public msg} By all means

Thu Apr 11 09:04:07 2002 geejay {public msg} In my previous business, I asked if I could give a chat on my industry. They said "yeas" and 28 people showed up to hear what I had to say. It was the most efficient way to let people know what I can do for them

Thu Apr 11 09:04:47 2002 geejay {public msg} It would be great to give a chat on web sites and positioning

Thu Apr 11 09:06:22 2002 johna {public msg} If you want different results from any networking action, you must practice different behavior.

Thu Apr 11 09:06:34 2002 geejay {public msg} Exactly

Thu Apr 11 09:06:37 2002 johna {public msg} Sure it'll mean giving up a bit of time and perhaps serving someone else ahead of yourself but you'll find surprising rewards in these places.

Thu Apr 11 09:06:56 2002 johna {public msg} I hope this makes sense

Thu Apr 11 09:07:38 2002 plymouth {public msg} so I guess joining the local chamber is important

Thu Apr 11 09:08:06 2002 johna {public msg} I think it is a great opportunity...or any other networking group.

Thu Apr 11 09:08:34 2002 webman {public msg} I live in an area where there are several smaller chambers and one chamber for a large metropolitan city. Which would be better to join?

Thu Apr 11 09:08:41 2002 geejay {public msg} As long as you do more than just give business cards away.

Thu Apr 11 09:09:03 2002 johna {public msg} Exactly.

Thu Apr 11 09:09:39 2002 johna {public msg} Do more than just promote yourself. Take a learning interest in others.

Thu Apr 11 09:09:54 2002 geejay {public msg} Million dollar advice

Thu Apr 11 09:09:58 2002 prplspud {public msg} One needs to be careful though, not to take on too many non-paying commitments.

Thu Apr 11 09:10:14 2002 prplspud {public msg} you can over volunteer.

Thu Apr 11 09:11:22 2002 johna {public msg} Mostly, you are probably talking about 2 to 4 hours of time a month to attend a meeting. I agree you should not get carried away but the time commitment is not major here

Thu Apr 11 09:12:02 2002 prplspud {public msg} Yes, but I know I've been turning down some opportunities. If you multiply by 10 organizations, you end up with no billable time!

Thu Apr 11 09:12:31 2002 prplspud {public msg} Plus they say you need to allow 25% of your time to market your own business (as a rule of thumb), to keep filling the sales funnel.

Thu Apr 11 09:12:35 2002 geejay {public msg} Just be reasonable

Thu Apr 11 09:12:42 2002 johna {public msg} You are literally surrounding yourself with a team of quality people who are also givers. You can learn much in these relationships.

Thu Apr 11 09:12:47 2002 johna {public msg} Are there any other questions on today's topic?

Thu Apr 11 09:12:49 2002 prplspud {public msg} I agree.

Thu Apr 11 09:13:08 2002 geejay {public msg} We have had today the most productive chat ever on this subject. Thanks Johna !

Thu Apr 11 09:13:19 2002 prplspud {public msg} Yes, thanks for your time.

Thu Apr 11 09:13:28 2002 royco {public msg} John.. thank u.. some good advice...

Thu Apr 11 09:13:31 2002 johna {public msg} Thank you....glad you enjoyed it.

Thu Apr 11 09:14:36 2002 johna {public msg} Is there anyone in this room planning to meet us in Nashville? I'd love to be able to work with you in person for 3 days.

Thu Apr 11 09:15:30 2002 wwilliams {public msg} What is the average fee I should charge my client for SEO services

Thu Apr 11 09:16:00 2002 webman {public msg} that's probably the single most difficult question to answer in my experience

Thu Apr 11 09:16:42 2002 johna {public msg} It depends on the nature of the job. Are you re-working the site? Are you doing the full job of researching and preparing a new strategy?

Thu Apr 11 09:17:43 2002 wwilliams {public msg} reworking a site

Thu Apr 11 09:18:12 2002 johna {public msg} If the job is extensive (often it is) the agreement may be for around $5000 and up.

Thu Apr 11 09:19:30 2002 johna {public msg} This is of course about mid range. When you first start out, you may want to help smaller businesses regardless of their budget...just to start building YOUR reputation.

Thu Apr 11 09:20:02 2002 geejay {public msg} Great advice !

Thu Apr 11 09:20:02 2002 johna {public msg} The most important thing is to become known as someone who get real results for people.

Thu Apr 11 09:20:14 2002 webman {public msg} unless they take what you tell them and go somewhere else

Thu Apr 11 09:22:04 2002 johna {public msg} Your reputation is something that can grow much faster than you might expect...this means a good reputation or a bad reputation. Get folks good results and outperform their expectations and they will send you referral business which is very valuable.

Thu Apr 11 09:22:06 2002 wwilliams {public msg} how many hours (labor) do you spend when performing this service?

Thu Apr 11 09:22:49 2002 johna {public msg} Sorry...which service? SEO or serving on a committee or what?

Thu Apr 11 09:23:58 2002 geejay {public msg} Wwilliams. Johna has bee on this room for an hour and a half. We may do this subject in another chat some other time. how about that ?

Thu Apr 11 09:25:07 2002 wwilliams {leaves}

Thu Apr 11 09:25:22 2002 geejay {public msg} Oops !

Thu Apr 11 09:25:38 2002 johna {public msg} I do have to leave shortly, but it is a pleasure to share. Would everyone like to continue on this chat next time?

Thu Apr 11 09:25:52 2002 webman {public msg} definitely

Thu Apr 11 09:25:58 2002 geejay {public msg} Yes . . . Yes . . . Yes ! ! !

Thu Apr 11 09:26:51 2002 johna {public msg} I hope that someday, I get to meet each of you in one of our workshops. In the meantime it's a pleasure to chat here

Thu Apr 11 09:28:35 2002 webman {public msg} ringing endorsement: I f you have three days to spare, there's no better way to spend them than with John and Robin in one of their workshops. They teach you pretty much all you need to know.

Thu Apr 11 09:29:07 2002 johna {public msg} If you do come up with other chat ideas, you might suggest them to Robin too and she can schedule them for the future.

Thu Apr 11 09:29:12 2002 burgwald {public msg} when is the work shop how much does it cost

Thu Apr 11 09:30:21 2002 webman {public msg} You can find the dates by going to John's site at www.beyond-seo.com

Thu Apr 11 09:30:41 2002 webman {public msg} When I took it, it cost $1000