Conducted by Sally Kavanagh

Academy of Web Specialists

Take search engine marketing training!

Mon Mar 18 07:04:58 2002 tgar {public msg} I'm looking forward to learning how to optimize on a shoestring budget ... we have a non commercial site and we're soooo limited budgetwise

Mon Mar 18 07:05:21 2002 sallyk {public msg} what is the subject area tgar

Mon Mar 18 07:05:29 2002 tgar {public msg} pediatrics/parenting

Mon Mar 18 07:05:44 2002 tgar {public msg} www.drgreene.com

Mon Mar 18 07:05:56 2002 sallyk {public msg} and what sort of site structure have you got, big site, frames etc

Mon Mar 18 07:06:04 2002 tgar {public msg} it's a pretty big site

Mon Mar 18 07:06:13 2002 sallyk {public msg} just looking at it now

Mon Mar 18 07:06:37 2002 tgar {public msg} my job is to work on link popularity and engine/directory submission

Mon Mar 18 07:08:18 2002 sallyk {public msg} how much traffic are you currently getting

Mon Mar 18 07:08:37 2002 sallyk {public msg} and are you using your site stats to see where it is coming from

Mon Mar 18 07:08:39 2002 tgar {public msg} I've not looked at the report in a couple of days...we just went total html recently

Mon Mar 18 07:08:54 2002 tgar {public msg} we are getting away from dynamic pages

Mon Mar 18 07:09:49 2002 tgar {public msg} I'm at the report now....my boss looks at "page views"....not sure myself how to properly read the report, but....

Mon Mar 18 07:10:02 2002 tgar {public msg} 44,614 so far this month

Mon Mar 18 07:10:23 2002 tgar {public msg} it looks like it's down a bit since the redesign

Mon Mar 18 07:10:43 2002 sallyk {public msg} where is the traffic coming from

Mon Mar 18 07:11:03 2002 sallyk {public msg} search engines, other medical sites?

Mon Mar 18 07:11:10 2002 tgar {public msg} from what I can understand with the webtrends report most of it comes from search engines. I'm concentrating mostly on link popularity for this reason

Mon Mar 18 07:11:58 2002 tgar {public msg} we just have a couple of other medical sites that we get continuous traffic from ... would like to see more of that

Mon Mar 18 07:12:24 2002 sallyk {public msg} how have you gone about targeting the search engines, are you using info pages to feed traffic in

Mon Mar 18 07:12:42 2002 tgar {public msg} yes....mostly the pages with his content...articles and such

Mon Mar 18 07:13:23 2002 sallyk {public msg} can you give me the address of one?

Mon Mar 18 07:13:33 2002 tgar {public msg} I discovered zeal.com not too long ago, but they won't let you submit too many from one site

Mon Mar 18 07:13:35 2002 tgar {public msg} ok..

Mon Mar 18 07:14:32 2002 tgar {public msg} http://www.drgreene.com/21_120.html

Mon Mar 18 07:16:14 2002 tgar {public msg} we have numerous pages like this one

Mon Mar 18 07:17:37 2002 sallyk {public msg} try using keywords in the title of the info page

Mon Mar 18 07:18:35 2002 sallyk {public msg} you have got 'being a physician' in there, but I think the drgreene.com is wasting useful title wordage

Mon Mar 18 07:19:07 2002 tgar {public msg} that would mean changing the whole site....all the pages have drgreene.com in the title

Mon Mar 18 07:19:17 2002 tgar {public msg} do you recommend doing this?

Mon Mar 18 07:19:42 2002 sallyk {public msg} why have you put it there

Mon Mar 18 07:19:53 2002 tgar {public msg} actually, I haven't.... but I'm here to learn what we need to do to successfully optimize the pages. That's why they're putting me through this course ;-)

Mon Mar 18 07:20:26 2002 sallyk {public msg} ok, I understand. But I can't see any really good reason for putting it there at all

Mon Mar 18 07:20:39 2002 tgar {public msg} I see

Mon Mar 18 07:21:19 2002 sallyk {public msg} Dr Greene maybe a valid keyword phrase for the whole site, i.e. the home page but typing in drgreene.com is going to find the site anyway, no need for SEs there

Mon Mar 18 07:21:54 2002 tgar {public msg} true

Mon Mar 18 07:21:58 2002 sallyk {public msg} the title is the single most valuable part of the page in terms of appealing to SEs. I use it very carefully

Mon Mar 18 07:22:26 2002 sallyk {public msg} Do you use Web Position Gold page critic when you are optimising a page?

Mon Mar 18 07:22:38 2002 tgar {public msg} no, I don't have WPG

Mon Mar 18 07:23:12 2002 sallyk {public msg} I think a single user license is quite reasonable. I know this is meant to be on a shoestring budget, but I would look into getting it.

Mon Mar 18 07:23:57 2002 sallyk {public msg} I think the page critic is very good. I use it as a first line of attack, just the on line part

Mon Mar 18 07:23:24 2002 tgar {public msg} I'll check into that

Mon Mar 18 07:23:55 2002 tgar {public msg} I do have Top Dog, but haven't really gotten into that program to learn about it...does that program have anything similar that would do this?

Mon Mar 18 07:24:58 2002 sallyk {public msg} I've never used Top Dog. I don't know what it contains, I thought is was mainly submissions but I may be wrong. Does anyone else use it?

Mon Mar 18 07:27:30 2002 tgar {public msg} I don't want to dominate the whole chat...thank you for your suggestions, sally, I will work on getting those titles more keyword intense :-)

Mon Mar 18 07:28:33 2002 sallyk {public msg} Just checked, standard WPG is $149

Mon Mar 18 07:29:03 2002 sallyk {public msg} Hope it works, titles are always the best place to start.

Mon Mar 18 07:29:25 2002 sallyk {public msg} Has anyone else any topic they would like to talk about

Mon Mar 18 07:29:45 2002 tgar {public msg} that's not a bad price, thanks sally

Mon Mar 18 07:30:09 2002 sallyk {public msg} they give you a good trial period as well

Mon Mar 18 07:30:32 2002 iamprem {public msg} it would be nice if u would tell us what are the key elements to be considered for budgeting a project like optimization of a site

Mon Mar 18 07:31:11 2002 sallyk {public msg} the key elements? you mean how to approach optimising a site on a limited budget

Mon Mar 18 07:31:32 2002 iamprem {public msg} to determine how much would it cost for optimization

Mon Mar 18 07:31:43 2002 iamprem {public msg} how would I go about the process

Mon Mar 18 07:32:27 2002 sallyk {public msg} I usually start by agreeing a modest budget, say £200

Mon Mar 18 07:32:39 2002 sallyk {public msg} I suppose that would be about $250-300 US

Mon Mar 18 07:32:40 2002 iamprem {public msg} ok

Mon Mar 18 07:32:52 2002 iamprem {public msg} yes, but are there specific elements I should be considering?

Mon Mar 18 07:33:05 2002 sallyk {public msg} then I aim to get some results with that to show what optimising can do

Mon Mar 18 07:33:22 2002 sallyk {public msg} so I submit the home page to the Inktomi database using Positiontech.com

Mon Mar 18 07:33:30 2002 sallyk {public msg} that cost $25 per the one page

Mon Mar 18 07:33:34 2002 iamprem {public msg} ok

Mon Mar 18 07:34:05 2002 sallyk {public msg} I then do some optimising. Getting the client to understand what keywords he wants me to use can be time consuming

Mon Mar 18 07:34:17 2002 sallyk {public msg} but it is crucial to get the right keywords

Mon Mar 18 07:34:28 2002 iamprem {public msg} so the costs involved would be the costs in submitting the links to various search engines

Mon Mar 18 07:34:35 2002 iamprem {public msg} any other costs

Mon Mar 18 07:34:41 2002 sallyk {public msg} I then optimize the home page, and one or two inside or info pages

Mon Mar 18 07:34:58 2002 sallyk {public msg} no, I take the $25 out of the $250-300

Mon Mar 18 07:35:04 2002 sallyk {public msg} and use the rest to pay for my time.

Mon Mar 18 07:35:38 2002 sallyk {public msg} I may decide to submit a second page if I think it would be better

Mon Mar 18 07:36:06 2002 sallyk {public msg} I then use whatever free submits I can, really the only big one now is Google

Mon Mar 18 07:36:39 2002 iamprem {public msg} ok

Mon Mar 18 07:36:45 2002 sallyk {public msg} and AV and FAST but I have my doubts about free submits from engines that also offer paid submissions

Mon Mar 18 07:36:47 2002 iamprem {public msg} so the cost would be very minimal

Mon Mar 18 07:36:49 2002 sallyk {public msg} you have to try it though

Mon Mar 18 07:36:57 2002 iamprem {public msg} ok

Mon Mar 18 07:37:16 2002 tgar {public msg} for non-commercial sites, zeal.com is a good place for getting a quick listing for free

Mon Mar 18 07:37:17 2002 sallyk {public msg} the cost of submissions has to be minimal on an optimisation budget of $250

Mon Mar 18 07:37:24 2002 iamprem {public msg} ok

Mon Mar 18 07:37:58 2002 sallyk {public msg} thanks tgar, I don't work with many non commercials

Mon Mar 18 07:38:20 2002 sallyk {public msg} does Yahoo still do a non commercial free submit tgar?

Mon Mar 18 07:38:25 2002 tgar {public msg} yes they do but I've had better success with zeal.com

Mon Mar 18 07:39:07 2002 sallyk {public msg} just a point about Yahoo and ODP though. I always wait until I am sure the client knows how his site is going to work ... before submitting to the ODP. It's very hard to get it changed so I think it is better to analyze the logs and see what keywords visitors are using before writing the description.

Mon Mar 18 07:40:01 2002 iamprem {public msg} ok

Mon Mar 18 07:40:18 2002 sallyk {public msg} It is free though and very important to getting good rankings in lots of other engines

Mon Mar 18 07:40:25 2002 iamprem {public msg} yes

Mon Mar 18 07:44:07 2002 sallyk {public msg} I was looking at zeal. Seems to be a US and Australian directory, labeled just as Looksmart here in the UK

Mon Mar 18 07:46:29 2002 tgar {public msg} if you get listed at zeal.com it will show up in Looksmart and MSN as far as I can tell so far

Mon Mar 18 07:46:49 2002 iamprem {public msg} ok

Mon Mar 18 07:46:52 2002 tgar {public msg} and the pages showed up pretty quick after being listed at zeal ... you have to go through the process

Mon Mar 18 07:47:39 2002 sallyk {public msg} I'll look into more, for the sites I work on that work internationally

Mon Mar 18 07:47:46 2002 sallyk {public msg} Any other topics anyone?

Mon Mar 18 07:48:11 2002 tgar {public msg} so, Inktomi is the only pay inclusion you'd recommend on a shoestring budget?

Mon Mar 18 07:49:08 2002 sallyk {public msg} it's the first I use. It's low cost and works, spiders every 48 hours which is useful when you are trying to get up the ranks

Mon Mar 18 07:49:29 2002 tgar {public msg} do you know what the name of their spider is?

Mon Mar 18 07:49:35 2002 sallyk {public msg} The fast pay submit has only been out a couple of weeks so haven't got so much feedback on that

Mon Mar 18 07:50:25 2002 sallyk {public msg} not off hand. But the rankings do change very quickly so it is a hard working spider.

Mon Mar 18 07:50:40 2002 sallyk {public msg} I'll try and find out for next month

Mon Mar 18 07:50:54 2002 tgar {public msg} ok

Mon Mar 18 07:52:21 2002 sallyk {public msg} In short for the budget clients, I usually optimise the index page and one or two info pages using WPG page critic and Search engine optimizer. Then submit using positiontech

Mon Mar 18 07:53:40 2002 sallyk {public msg} After that, if money is more important than time, it's a question of submitting using the free submits and getting the descriptions right for the important directories

Mon Mar 18 07:54:04 2002 danrcr {public msg} is this positiontech an automatic software?

Mon Mar 18 07:55:20 2002 sallyk {public msg} no, it's a site, positiontech.com from where you can submit to the Inktomi paid inclusion program.

Mon Mar 18 07:55:50 2002 sallyk {public msg} you set up an account with them. I have found them very efficient

Mon Mar 18 07:56:53 2002 danrcr {public msg} but you can go to the Inktomi partner and do it your self and have the control of your sites

Mon Mar 18 07:57:29 2002 sallyk {public msg} what do you mean by control of your sites

Mon Mar 18 07:58:03 2002 danrcr {public msg} well, you can see your stats and related keywords

Mon Mar 18 07:58:45 2002 danrcr {public msg} so, you have a main keyword and them the service will shows up other related keywords that you can used for mini-sites or doorways

Mon Mar 18 07:58:49 2002 sallyk {public msg} the advantage of positiontech is that the page gets into the database very quickly and the partners refresh from the database frequently

Mon Mar 18 07:59:35 2002 danrcr {public msg} but from Inktomi you get the same, don't you? Maybe we are talking about the same service

Mon Mar 18 08:01:15 2002 sallyk {public msg} danrcr, I haven't used the related keyword services from the partners, I tend to use the stats from a site to look at how visitors are thinking

Mon Mar 18 08:01:38 2002 sallyk {public msg} thanks for coming, hope it was relevant